communication on multipitch pitfalls

Not being able to see or hear the leader on a multipitch climb is a common thing. Figuring out how to communicate is very important obvioulsy . My partner and i are using rope tug system, as in 3 tugs when the leader puts the second on belay then start taking . It works well. When the leader comes up to the station how do you signal for off belay though? what ends up happening i keep my leader on belay the whole time till there is no more rope left then yell "its me" i know how long the pitch is so its not taking the whole rope length usually the rope starts moving fast i stay on belay just to make sure there is no runout section and the leader is moving fast. any feedback is appreciated. Thank you.

When the second arrives at the next belay with the leader, and anchors in, how many tugs do you use to inform the leader you are off belay?

huh? No tugs required at that point you can see and speak to each other.

I use 2 for ON, 3 for OFF. See why?

ok coming up to station for off belay give 3 tugs put the second on belay give 2 tugs?

jmeizis wrote:I use 2 for ON, 3 for OFF. See why?

I do the same thing though I remember it as: 2 for CLIMB ON! and 3 for OFF BE-LAY!

Mitch Zimmerman wrote:huh? No tugs required at that point you can see and speak to each other.

What if you don't speak the same language?

kBobby wrote: What if you don't speak the same language?

you dont need to learn but a few words, no need to conversate anyway, its a distraction

Jeremy Bauman wrote: I do the same thing though I remember it as: 2 for CLIMB ON! and 3 for OFF BE-LAY!

makes sence! we r gonna do that from now on

Mitch Zimmerman wrote: you dont need to learn but a few words, no need to conversate anyway, its a distraction

This is excellent advice. Everyone should listen to this advice. Especially those people who go on and on and on... I'm sure you have run into those people. Every conversation with them is a distraction. They really seem to enjoy it. Next time that happens, I will pass on this wonderfully sage advice of yours. Thanks.

Only thing I would say is, make sure you can differentiate a tug from regular climbing motions. I try to pull up about 5 feet of rope, let it drop completely, then wait a couple of seconds to do it again, or three times depending on the situation. Just make sure it is extremely clear it is a tug, and not just climbing then downstepping etc.

kBobby wrote: This is excellent advice. Everyone should listen to this advice. Especially those people who go on and on and on... I'm sure you have run into those people. Every conversation with them is a distraction. They really seem to enjoy it. Next time that happens, I will pass on this wonderfully sage advice of yours. Thanks.

on multipitch keeping the conversation to minimal only makes sence hey its ok to reflect on the climb afterwards or on the summitt or while eating at the stations but really to keep things simple safe and to the point so that the leader can focus on task at hand is crucial. Climbing with people who speak different language can be a challenge i never had to face that but there was a death of a Petzl rep who went climbing with a kid from Russia ( ironic) and was dropped mostly because of language barrier.

Jake Kay wrote:Only thing I would say is, make sure you can differentiate a tug from regular climbing motions. I try to pull up about 5 feet of rope, let it drop completely, then wait a couple of seconds to do it again, or three times depending on the situation. Just make sure it is extremely clear it is a tug, and not just climbing then downstepping etc.

good point!

Mitch Zimmerman wrote:ok coming up to station for off belay give 3 tugs put the second on belay give 2 tugs?

Yes, when I explain how to do this to a new partner or climber I usually say I'll do three to indicate off then yell. They'll know for sure when I start pulling up route quicker than I could climb and then drop it. They reply with three tugs. They know they're on when they get two tugs and the rope stays tight. They can reply with two tugs but not really necessary.

One of the advantages I like with climbing with regular partners is that you understand each others habits, and non-verbal commands quite well; not like climbing commands/communication isn't already straightforward/simple enough, but on long routes, where you're mostly out of sight, and unable to hear calls in the wind, and
may be unable to differentiate between tugs to take one off belay, or if a leader is yarding on the rope because of rope drag, or if ones clipping, the tug system can be an uncomfortable method to rely on when climbing with new partners, IMO. If I am not 100% certain, whether to take my partner off belay, I keep my partner on, usually having to feed out the rope faster (it's a work-out!), until the rope runs out, then go from there.

Another thought; my partners, and I will sometimes link pitches; we try to give each other the head's up beforehand, but at times, the leader will just go with the flow without the other knowing if he or she is linking the pitches- in that case, for example, the belayer may know the pitch is only 80 feet, but if the leader suddenly decided to link the next pitch, their estimate of "the leader must be at the top of the pitch because they know the pitch is only 80 feet" could be off.

Just my 2 pennies. : )

Good point! I usually climb with Mr. Stone on multipitch routes and crag only with friends and new climbing partners I meet unless im sure of their abilities as a leader and a communicator cragging is pretty safe and a lot of pitfalls can be avoided. Nevertheless paying close attention in both cases and reminding on communication commands is very important. Over almost 2 years of climbing partnership our communication has improved so did the climbing couple issues .....well still working on those :)

Mitch Zimmerman wrote:I usually climb with Mr. Stone

Maybe I missed a prior thread where you owned up to being Eleanor but congrats on owning up to it. And you ask a serious question you get serious helpful answers. I too use the 3 tug OFF!!-BE!!-LAY!! and the 2 tug CLIMB!!!-ON!!! method.

Previous threads on this same issue

This

Or this

Or this

thats nice good info! its amazing how many people have had the communication problem we seem to be able to manage just looking for improvement tips, but anyway now i dont feel so bad actually.
p.s. checking into fort logan. my dad is back so please go easy on him.

Mitch Zimmerman wrote:huh? No tugs required at that point you can see and speak to each other.

A few slow tugs and complete silence at the belay would be ideal.

Small two way radios. The haters on here will hate them, but I find them useful, especially when you are making fun of the people next to you. Clip them on, and tie a backup with 2mm cord. If they fail? I don't know, never happened, and I've been using them for a long, long, long time.