beginner friendly climbs at the Creek.

Ps huge thanks to Sam L for all his work replacing anchors here and elsewhere!

Russell89 wrote:I'm new at tradding. Does anybody have suggestions about where to climb at the Creek?

Sam's got it.

I suggest to get some experience somewhere, maybe around Moab if need be, then try Indian Creek with an experienced partner.

If you're new at trad climbing, the creek isn't a great place to cut your teeth, unless you're unusually gifted.

doligo wrote: That is not traditional climbing. Many may argue that is not climbing period.

wow so you've never used your last ounce of strength to clip a bolt or piece of gear and immediately taken? hats to you good sir.

many may argue that the creek isnt traditional climbing at all. I'm not saying its great style or something to aspire to, but its something that a beginner to the area might want to know that they can do. Are you really gonna be that elitist ass and judge someone for being new at something?

you gotta start somewhere. why not the Creek? you can hang dog your way up just about any plumb 5.10 and french-free the hard parts. all the classics have great anchors thanks to the devoted few. what's his face says it ain't climbing! how the ++++ do you think folks get up big walls in a day?

great camping, beauty desert, and an ultra-classic climbing crag. sounds like a go for me...and it's been for almost 20 yrs.

if i see you there, you can hitch with us. love to have ya :)

Phill T wrote: wow so you've never used your last ounce of strength to clip a bolt or piece of gear and immediately taken? hats to you good sir. many may argue that the creek isnt traditional climbing at all. I'm not saying its great style or something to aspire to, but its something that a beginner to the area might want to know that they can do. Are you really gonna be that elitist ass and judge someone for being new at something?

Pardon me, but I got an impression the OP wanted to get into traditional climbing. IMHO, the Creek is not a very good place to learn traditional climbing, as many mentioned there are no good stances to fiddle with gear (not to mention other aspects of trad climbing like nut craft, directional anchors, rappelling etc.). I cut my teeth in an old school area, where you place a piece and down climb to your last good stance to de-pump and climbing 30' above your last piece is not unusual. By no means I'm an elitist and have done my fare share A0-ing at the Creek. I think the Creek is a great place to hone your technique and beginners should not be intimidated by it, but I don't think it's a good place to learn trad climbing, IMO. Always having gear at your waist messes your head.

doligo wrote: That is not traditional climbing. Many may argue that is not climbing period.

So aid climbing is not traditional...who knew?

Ha, you got me. Traditional free climbing or trad as many refer to. BTW, to answer Phill T, having different ethics is not synonymous to elitist or plebeian. jmho

no, but thinking that your ethics are clearly better than others' when they have no impact on your climbing life, is elitist.

I think it is also important to consider the desert environment and the potential impact serious hang dogging has on the Wingate Sandstone (and on any sandstone). Of course all climbing has an impact, but look at how different The Incredible Handcrack is these days after all traffic through the years, and it probably sees more hang dogging than most routes (except possibly Supercrack).
From a scientific stand point, simply placing gear has minimal impact on the rock but placing and hanging moves the piece quite a bit and puts significant force on the rock i.e. were and tear.
IMHO, the Creek is not a place to be sport dogging.....it is a magical trad climbing place where true crack climbing skills are needed, and endurance is necessary.

:-)

Phill T wrote:no, but thinking that your ethics are clearly better than others' when they have no impact on your climbing life, is elitist.

Did I ever state that?

Never stated directly, but you certainly implied it with tone/wording/spraying.

I'd wager that the widening of supercrack/IHC/ etc. at the creek has WAY more to do with the volume of people sliding in jams rather than the volume of people of weighting gear. Hanging on gear is going to have way less impact that whipping on it and possibly having it track out. This is DEFINITELY evident on routes like moonlight (granted not in the creek, but similar sandstone). Seeing first hand some of the scars/tracks where people are ripping gear from whipping on free attempts was a bit sobering.

Hey guys you are confusing the kid with your bickering. What's all that about?

IC is the definition of pluggin gear and sport doggin.

JLP, I'm flattered that I got a stalker on my MP profile... I won the crux pitch via "rock, paper, scissors" despite my protest of me not being ready for it, my partners encouraged me to do it. I fell off the traverse, I could've easily reached the anchors, especially now that I put a piece on top of the traverse I was essentially on a top rope and at worst could've A0-d to the anchors, but I was only 20 feet off the belay, so I gave a chance of an OS to my partner. Is that a wrong ethic? Do you when given a chance of a new exciting climb keep hogging a good lead? I by no means climb hard enough to be elitist, but I think everyone should aspire to climb in the best style. Nevermind... judging from your comment, you don't climb much, do you?

Great info! Thanx guys!

Russell89 wrote:Great info! Thanx guys!

I'll chime in as I just got back from my first successful (third actual) trip to Indian Creek. I went there about 3 years ago with a rack of cams, a few Red Rock Canyon 5.6's, and some SW UT 5.10 sport routes under my harness. I had a few friends who knew what they were doing and a few friends who had no clue. My first trip ended with me spending most of the days hiking up and down canyons and giving belays to folks much more talented than me. My second trip I placed my first piece of gear at IC and promptly fell on it, ripping it out of the wall and landing my ass in the sand from 10 feet up...lucky as hell considering the landings on many of these climbs. Fortunately someone took pity on me and let me run laps on a handful of easier 10s and 9s (Monk, Blue Sun, etc.) and I actually learned something. I then spent the next two years cutting my teeth on routes in Zion and leading harder routes in Red Rocks. This past week saw a handful of onsight leads, a bunch of falls, no hangdogging, and a hell of a lot of fun.

The point is, Indian Creek is going to humble the shit out of you your first couple times there. The climbing is sustained and difficult. Fortunately the people there are awesome, willing to teach, and willing to exchange beta and gear. This is because everyone there started at the same point and they all remember what it was like to have oozing gobies or tape gloves that resembled medieval torture devices. So find some people to take you there or make friends down there and prepare to feel like the gumbiest of gumbies. Chances are you will be addicted and you'll be back in the fall or spring to try it again with more skills, cams, and friends.

And, to finish things off, the climbing in Indian Creek is a very narrow vision of traditional climbing. It can teach you a very specific technique, but it can also teach you to rely too much on gear and not enough on your ability to read a route. Spend time learning to flow, make sure to breath, and don't be afraid to top-rope everything your first time out there.

Ryan Hill
+++1

Great and sound adwise!!!!