Somebody explain this to me, please.

Ryan Williams wrote: So you only like people thAt have a lot of money?

Nope.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: Nope.

Ahh humans so refreshing....?

You just gotta love us what a great bunch we are ehy? ;)

any thing works on a top rope :)

jack roberts wrote:I have a pair of these tools that I have been using since March of last year and have not regretted it yet.

Wait, for real???

Can you PLEASE do an extensive review? No desire to purchase whatsoever, but I just need to know how $1500 for a pair of tools could possibly be justified.

shoo wrote: Wait, for real??? Can you PLEASE do an extensive review? No desire to purchase whatsoever, but I just need to know how $1500 for a pair of tools could possibly be justified.

easily justified if you don't pay $1500 for them...

For real...when you climb stuff like this..which Jack does.
Tip from a satisfied client :)

More on the tools here:
cascadeclimbers.com/forum/u…

he's the man.

the biggest problem with those tools is how ugly they are...

check this one out for comparison: denver.craigslist.org/spo/2…

muttonface wrote: Holy shit. That's really obscence that people have that much money to spend on something like that.

add up the price of your rack, the ropes, shoes, webbing, tape, chalk...I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if it enters that ballpark.

We're not talking rich here - we're talking sponsored.

Also please remember that initially climbing was a sport for upper class folks with title, education, money or all three - then long came good ol' Joe Brown....

Ray Pinpillage wrote: My friends are fat and old but have awesome gear, I like climbing with them because they have their own shit and don't ask me to eat at McDonalds on climbing trips. If you had those ice tools I'd know that at a minimum you wouldn't try to borrow any of my gear. Chances are you wouldn't climb better but I'd like you as a person more.

ha ha so true, I used to be a dirtbag climber and now that I'm older and slower I have better gear and don't mind paying for it. Alpine and ice climbing have always been expensive compared to rock climbing. I have probably $2K in mountaineering boots alone (granted I have been alpine climbing for over 10 years). The young and new alpinist/ice climbers have ebay and MP to buy used and cheap.

I could afford $749 each tools but my BD venoms get me up all the moderate alpine ice that I could ever do.

I'll get around to doing a formal review in a day or two.

Meanwhile, I took them to the Bozeman Ice Festival and let anyone who wanted to use them do so and EVERYONE came back very impressed. It was difficult to get them back from climbers once they used them on the rock and the ice........

In short the Carbon Force (or Murcielago which I think means BAT in Italian) tools are designed so that you can place your hand just about anywhere on the shaft and there is not any pick shift. That means that you can choke up really high on them and increase your reach to the next good placement without expending unnecessary energy.
Also, the various finger loops and bumpers are shaped in such a way that I am never gripping or holding the shaft with a closed fist. Rather I am able to lock my fingers in the various loop configurations, resting them so that I am not using unnecessary strength...........All of this means that I use less energy and climb harder routes than with any other tool. The carbon fiber means that the tool feels like a feather in the hand.........Are they worth the $750? Depends how often you go drytooling. I climb M-routes so much that for me the answer is yes! They make the climbing easier and more fun. An alloy version is also available with the same geometry for $450.oo

Josh Olson wrote: add up the price of your rack, the ropes, shoes, webbing, tape, chalk...I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if it enters that ballpark.

Agree,,,,ALL that gear for the same or a bit more sure makes alot of sense considering all you get from the variety of gear in your supply, vs. a pair of fancy tools. And probably accumulated over a budget, not in one big cash drop.

I can drive 100mph in my Honda Element just fine...............BUT it sure is a lot more fun when I get behind the steering wheel of my friend's Porsche and go at the same speed (well maybe a little bit faster.) Both handle the same speed just fine. I'm not necessarily a better driver when I am in the Porsche. It's in the subtle nature of how the cars (tools) feel and perform that make the all difference.

I probably climb a full grade harder with more ease using the Grivel tools than say, the Nomics. Mainly it is just that by when I use the carbon Force tools I have more fun.

I admit I climb better with my XMonsters than I did with my Chouinard zero axes.,,,and paid about the same for either of them, but 20 years apart. That's value for your dollar.

jack roberts wrote:Murcielago which I think means BAT in Italian

Murcielago is the name of a Lamborghini, which in turn was named after a 19th century (Spanish) bull, whose name was "bat" in Spanish. (The Italian for "bat" is "pipistrello.")

Looking forward to the review!

As with all Grivel tools, the pick angle is too steep.

These tools are AWESOME! You should totally get em! While you are at it please also sell your old tools for next to nothing to me! Thanks.

Seriously, Ice is so expensive to get into I wouldn't know where to begin.

Boots are a good start :)