St. Vrain Canyon guidebook...

Wow, that was like a whole guide book in itself to someone's unsubstantiated complaints about non-issues with another guide book!

I have your High Peaks and Estes Park area guidebooks and love them, Bernard. Keep making great guides!

I only wish the guidebooks out here on the East Coast were half as "bad" as Bernard's guides. You want a bad guidebook, check out the recent color Gunks guide. Colorado folk don't know how good they got it...

Best climbing along front range...and bernards book has only made it better. I began climbing in sstv 6 years ago. One late evening during that first year, some dude (Bernard) came to my partner and my rescue. As we had desperately wanted to get a climb in but ended up frustrated and ready to pack it in. Bernard asked if we needed a lead, grab some cams and set us a tr. Something rarely done in this day and age of climbing. Since then we have climbed almost every route in that book. Excellent directions and descriptions.

The sstv just ain't for everyone. If you enjoy crossing rivers, walking in PI and getting off route every now and then, this is the place. With all the bolting and fa claims, trust me there is still plenty of rock that never made it into the book. Great exploring and epic journey kinda climbing.

If you want easy climbing access and signs on every crag then stay in boulder.

jon vandub, You actually think that the old Falcon guide is "pretty good"? If that's the case, you'll think the New one is a work of freakin' art! I'd be curious to learn more about those routes lacking ethics too. Not saying there aren't a few out there, but none I can think of that Gillett's set. Hope you take him up on that guide offer to provide us some valuable insight.
Rich Schreckengost, you sure ducked awfully quick following that half-assed jab. For the record, no, I don't think it blows; I happen to think it's a very good guide (like Gillett's several others). Maybe you need some help in the fundamentals of guide reading?
Just sayin'.

Seriously. Now this is not cool.

Rich Schreckengost wrote:But in all honesty, it's the internet and I could really care less about my "mountain project internet cred".

Obviously you have not been climbing long because you would realize this community is quite small. Be a contributing member rather than a jerk.

Rich Schreckengost wrote:I spent a day out at SSV with my girlfriend, walking for 45 minutes or so to find a crag with what was said to be pretty good moderate routes. If the descriptions of the routes/area were correct, I wouldn't have walked said 45 minutes.

You spent a day; try a little harder. When I first started climbing in my adult life this took some effort to get over. It's no different than partners. It takes work and time, get used to it. It is not Disneyland with arrows pointing to the route and signs of the route name and rating. I would try and stick to crags that have parking lots and plastic holds.

Your response to Bernard... Complete bullshit. What have you done for the others who are climbing around you. You say you are comparing his book to other sharp end books. Climbers are as well and his is on par with the others as I think MP members will confirm. Your argument appears to be getting closer to pure distilled BS. There are other books that are not as well done but the SSV book does not fall into that category.

This may be an internet forum but those who are responding are closer than I believe you are aware. Try and ask questions if you have valid ones as opposed to bashing the hard work of others that have put a much greater amount of time in than yourself. We have more climbing here at are fingertips than anywhere in the world. So there are parts of the book you don't like boo ho. For the love of God he included ice routes. (Thanks for that by the way :) You ticked one that I did not know about after living in AP for years. Chances are you are not going to take any of this thread to heart but maybe someday you will appreciate all the hard work others have done.

--- Invalid image id: 107167131 ---

wayne you bad boy ;)

Rich Schreckengost wrote: I spent a day out at SSV with my girlfriend, walking for 45 minutes or so to find a crag with what was said to be pretty good moderate routes. If the descriptions of the routes/area were correct, I wouldn't have walked said 45 minutes. What was supposed to be an 80 foot crag turned out to be shorter than some of the stuff found at N. Table. What was stated as a hand crack was more like a tree filled, I could fit my whole 155lb body in crack. And lastly, anchor bolts set in places that completely baffled me (and yes MP tough guys, I have been climbing more than 2 days). After leaving that area, I tried to find another area (with a 10 minute) approach that again, was not even close to what was stated.

Which crag, which routes? If you are correct, save the rest of us the trouble.

Other than the odd rap bolts that are missing from where the guide stays they are, the new book has been a blessing. I haven't had a problem in that canyon that I didn't bring on myself. Thank you Mr. Gillett.

hmmm, having climbed a lot of the routes in the SSV, and most of the routes in the IC guidebook, i would have to say that the SSV guidebook is generally more accurate.

how many "family" photos are in the guidebook? i can only think of 2 or 3.(?).

i have really enjoyed the SSV guidebook. i have climbed a lot of the stuff in the front range and the new guidebook has shown me a lot of new areas and routes to check out. i like the backwoods sort of feel to it. kind of like a mix of the platte and boulder canyon. quiet, but close by.

Hi Rich - thanks for responding; I appreciate your taking the time to do so. I'll just send you an email; no need to drag dirty laundry through public thoroughfares.

Looking on the bright side, I'm guessing the St Vrain guidebook is getting some free advertising on this forum. [Warning mp readers: subliminal message coming your way...]

##B##U##Y## ))b((u))y(( ^^ß^^µ^^¥^^

Thanks again to the folks who enjoy the guide. Maybe I'll pull the trigger soon and get a Tuesday Night OW club outing to N St Vrain started, and we can let this thread rest in peace. Rich, you'd be most welcome to attend (assuming it materializes). I'm kind of busy these days, but if it happens, I could show you some beta on Pretty Blue Gun. That beta may come in the form of hanging in my harness on a top rope, but I've learned that's as good a trick as any to getting my aging body up a hard route.

Have a great weekend everyone,

Bernard

Oh, I will add something about the family photos: there are 4 of them (excluding a couple pictures of me), plus a picture of a family friend. I decided that if I was going to include a picture of one of the girls, I had to include a picture of all of them. Imagine the indignant protests of "daddy, how come [name of child] got HER picture in the book but I didn't???" had I not gone that route. Of course I could have gone with no family pics, but I kind of like families (mine in particular). My son (our youngest) really wasn't climbing when the guide came out, so he got the short end of the stick. In fairness to him, here's a pic you can print out and glue into the front cover of your guide, and then you'll have the full set:

--- Invalid image id: 107167255 ---

"I spent a day out at SSV with my girlfriend, walking for 45 minutes or so to find a crag with what was said to be pretty good moderate routes. If the descriptions of the routes/area were correct, I wouldn't have walked said 45 minutes. What was supposed to be an 80 foot crag turned out to be shorter than some of the stuff found at N. Table. What was stated as a hand crack was more like a tree filled, I could fit my whole 155lb body in crack. And lastly, anchor bolts set in places that completely baffled me"

Hey Rich, could you maybe fill us in so we don't make the same mistake?

You know, once I tried to find Cobb Rock with the Falcon guide and I mistook Eagle Rock for it and just made the best of it and climbed that horrible dihedral up the center of it. But it never occurred to me that the guide book author was to blame for the odometer readings or some such thing. I just assumed I didn't set mine correctly at the beginning of the canyon.

If you are at the wrong crag, you're at the wrong crag. Duh.

But I'm with you on the trustifarian hate, Rich. That is always legit.

Somebody step on this guy!

don't just step, ..... STOMP!

I’ve been using Gillette’s guide for about a year now. It does what a guide is supposed to do—gets me to the crags and find the climbs, whose ratings are reasonably accurate. It’s a good guidebook.

Giving the approach in distance/elevation gain (GPS, pedometer) rather than time replaces subjective data with something more easily quantified. But this is a small point. I’m slow on approaches so I’ve learnt how to modify Gillette’s times for me (multiply by 3).

Cheers,
Rob.calm

Cor wrote: Hey Rich, could you maybe fill us in so we don't make the same mistake?

+1.

And I'm sure Bernard would appreciate knowing exactly which crag has faulty information.

Phil,

Rich is gone... He posted after Stich, then deleted it 10 min later.
I know this is because of spending too much time here on a rainy/misty day in town. (I work at home sometimes.)

In all seriousness though, it would be good to know if there actually
was an error.

I guess it is time for this thread to DIE.
All fun things eventually come to an end. ;-)