Gym closures for comps

shortguy, you OBVIOUSLY don't understand that these concepts aren't learned until the Level 3 certification... :)

i once remember a business that had the sign "if we don't take care of our customers, someone else will" ...

sometimes it pays to remember who pays the bills ....

or maybe that town just has no other gyms ... hmmmmm

I'm always amazed at how many people in this world work in jobs that are 100% dependent on providing quality customer service and yet they have zero concept, training, or experience of what that is except when customers act exactly the way they want them to.

The managers of Rocksport have really disgraced themselves on here. Sadly, this is not the first story I have heard of this happening with other customers (face to face as well, so they don't discriminate). Certainly you can never make everyone happy all the time but this does not mean one should send their PR into the toilet. I feel entitled to say this because I worked for years in a highly customer service-dependent industry.

I don't go to the gym much; however, I do like and have enjoyed some promotions that the gym has done in the past. In my limited experience, I have found the front desk people to be friendly and outgoing. I have found the route setting to be a mix of very good, mediocre, to pretty poor (the ratio of each seems to change over time). I have generally been way more impressed with the route setting, route turnover time, facilities, and gym service in other cities I have lived.

Around 10-12 years ago, a family member of mine tried to get an investor to finance a new gym in the Reno area, but unfortunately it didn't work out at the time. Eventually, the day will come when Rocksport will have competition... and I think their sales will reflect accordingly.

"Being on par in terms of price and quality only gets you into the game. Service wins the game."
TONY ALESSANDRA

"In business you get what you want by giving other people what they want."
ALICE MACDOUGALL

Paul Heppner wrote:(we can find you!).

mod -1 (creepy)

How about closing all the gyms for good.

I'm just going to throw this out there. What if Dustin and Kate aren't the rock gym managers and just random internet trolls?!!!!

Very entertaining stuff! I happen to be in the service industry and I recently learned the "big" lesson of what happens when you don't listen to your clients/customers...

To the managerial staff at Rock Sport (if you are still reading this forum), I encourage you to be a bit more professional with your client base (in-person or on-line); in the end they pay your salary. Many of the postings had valid concerns that are shared by a large portion of your client base. Being a member of Rock Sport, and friends with a large portion of your members, I can vouch for this. If you take the time to read behind the frustrated words you will find information that might help you boost business and make your customers happier. Unfortunately, this will require you to swallow some pride, and step off the pedestal that you have created for yourself. I speak as someone who just recently had to swallow a bunch of ego in order to keep his clients happy. It's not flavorful, but in the end it helps business. I also can tell you that many members don't enjoy coming to the gym because of the small gym atmosphere, but because they have no other option. You have no competition in Reno, and until a new rock gym opens you can continue to conduct business as usual; climbers will still come to Rock Sport for their indoor climbing fix.

To the angry climbers, I support you for voicing your opinions! Most others share your frustrations about the Indoor Climbing situation in Reno. I encourage you to consider the quality of the facility you are voicing your concerns about. The gym is very old and literally "falling" apart; on many days there is a constant cloud of dust on the gym floor. The actual floor of the gym is another issue all together. Tape marking routes that falls off hardly ever gets replaced. After a comp, there is often a large amount of unattended route setting equipment that sits on the gym floor for days, right in the middle of the belay area; loose screws everywhere for careless climbers to trip on (ie: this past week). Any gym where you can lead climb and lead belay without some kind of "test" says everything about the safety mentality of the staff. I know, this last point is convenient for many climbers, but in the end it's dangerous for all. When I walk on the gym floor my adrenaline always goes up because I never know what's going to happen; I am often paranoid about something falling from the "sky" and hitting me (maybe I have PTSD from my time in the service or maybe it's because every time I go to Rock Sport I can count near misses on two hands). You're dealing with a management that either does not care about the safety of the activity being conducted in their facility and the safety of their customers, or is grossly uneducated about it. If the staff doesn't care about your safety, they probably don't care about your happiness either. Finally, the owner is not a rock climber and probably doesn't have a good feel at all for the pulse of his customers; it's left to the manager to make that link, and based on the responses to your postings we know where we stand with that. In the end, until a competitor moves into the area, or unless there is a major shift in the mentality of the staff, you will be paying a membership fee for a fairly mediocre service. The only comfort I can give you is that you are not alone!

To Mark, the owner of Rock Sport, if you happen to read this forum, I hope you have a better understanding of the professional mentality of your staff. If I were you I would have a serious talk with them. I also hope that you are better aware of the frustrations of your customers; maybe some apologies and refunds are in order. From a professional stand-point, coming from a certified rock climbing guide and climbing instructor, I believe you are very lucky that a major climbing incident hasn't occurred at Rock Sport on your watch. I know there are rumors of great "concrete" changes potentially happening for Rock Sport in this new year. Please remember that no matter how much new hardware you can provide, it doesn't mean much unless you have the right people to manage it for you. "Safety first" is the motto of the industry you are in; if you don't know how to provide that, get educated!

To any individual or corporation with the funds and interest to open a rock climbing gym, if you are reading this forum, you are now very aware that Reno would be a great venue to open a new facility; only one competitor with a very low standard of care for its customers and a very large population of climbers starving for a gym which will provide a better product. The biggest little city in the world is waiting for you!

JJ Brunner wrote:I'm just going to throw this out there. What if Dustin and Kate aren't the rock gym managers and just random internet trolls?!!!!

I was thinking the same thing, her post being the more realistic one besides the whole Nationally Certified Level II Setter (in caps). I'm going for 50/50 odds.

I've belonged to 3-4 gyms that always went out of their way to give their members something to climb while prepping for a comp and have never seen any of them close for more than one day(2 including the comp). I'd be pissed off too.

JJ Brunner wrote:I'm just going to throw this out there. What if Dustin and Kate aren't the rock gym managers and just random internet trolls?!!!!

They are absolutely not trolls.

SKI wrote:Hey Scott! Dude, you got some serious Level II Certified anger dude, what's with the email? "Dustin Sabo at Mountain Project to me show details Jan 18 (1 day ago) Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from postmaster@mountainproject.com You SUCK!!! Yes I honestly think you totally SUCK!! You are the worst kind of person. How about you stop hiding in the shadows and come chat with me on the subject! I would love the opportunity to express how I truly feel strait to your face. " P.S. A "strait" is a narrow passageway connecting two bodies of water. Maybe you meant straight? "(if you don't know what that means you might want to educate yourself before you sound like a moron)." We'll chat bud- and it's going to start with me bringing this email in to Rocksport. WE ARE YOUR CLOSE-KNIT CLIMBING COMMUNITY. Take what people here are saying and recommend changes. Letting this fall on deaf ears will ruin you man- and spurning the rest of us, your community, isn't going to help either. Especially here in the Biggest Little City.

ooh, ooh, what's the fallout SKI....

Agreed - I am intrigued by what the response was by RS Staff and Management after he confronted them! What happened?!?!?!

Did they refund you and send you packing as they stated?

IsaacWill wrote: I personally appreciate any gym that is willing to take the hit and host one of these comps, especially one as successfully executed as this one.

Ummmm... What "hit" is the gym taking? They're keeping their members' money and shutting the gym down for several days. It is the MEMBERS who are taking the hit. Involuntarily I might add.

Aerili wrote: They are absolutely not trolls.

Where's your logic?!

I've since changed my mind about Rock Sport. While I'll never pay money to go to the gym, I wholeheartedly support the two giant middle fingers they've raised to the Reno climbing community in general. It really is bad ass, "any naysayers should come in and we'll refund you". Awesome.

I remember working for a small business that had an internet forum dedicated to discussing our product. Occasionally, customers would post to complain and they would not always use the nicest language. Although it can sometimes be frustrating to read through such comments, they were actually a great, free resource for improving our product.
If a customer says a certain feature "sucks," you have to ignore the tone of the statement and see if in fact that feature could be improved. If you disagree with their assessment because they are perhaps misusing the feature, then you have to accept that that shows there is something wrong with your documentation or communication or ease of use.
Reacting to criticism by essential telling your customers to fuck off gains the business nothing. I would be amazed if the gym owner found out about these posts and did not have his employees write an apology. The overwhelming consensus is that they were rude, childish, and unprofessional, and I am glad that I don't live in Reno and have the choice to not use their facility.
I remember living in a different city that had an old rock gym that had awful customer service. Everyone tolerated it because it was the only gym in the area. When a new gym finally opened up, the old gym lost most of its customer base within a few months.

As for the original complaint and the response, I think the complaint is legitimate. Closing for 4 days seems excessive, regardless of what the weather may have been like. However, it could be understandable for a small gym.
Had the manager stated that she was sorry for the inconvenience, but that the gym lacked the resources to set faster, then the response from the community would probably have been more sympathetic. Further she could have pointed out that the competition and resulting closure was posted and advertised well in advance, and customers were warned prior to buying a monthly pass. If that was not the case, then she should have apologized for the oversight and offered to somehow make things right.
Kate wrote "I want to take a moment in closing to state again that I am glad to have this discussion! "
But Kate (and more so Dustin) did not participate in any discussion. Telling anyone who complains to fuck off is not a discussion.

"All my setters are burnt out after ABS and SCS but it's only sport climbers that complain during BOTH SEASONS,(...a running joke amongst the staff, so thanks for proving the point this season!). "

Why would someone running in indoor climbing gym go out of their way to insult sport climbers? I imagine sport climbers make up a large percentage of their customers.
Then Dustin writes (full of spelling errors as quoted, after calling others morons)
" If your angry that we closed for a comp or that you think that we set too slow or whatever else you may think I just want you to know we are doing are best and we will continue to do what we do."

Which basically means "if you have any complaint, fuck you, we aren't going to change anything." Why on earth would anyone in business write anything like that?

So what is a constructive discussion?
Angry customer: "Your routes fucking suck..."
Gym worker: "Could you please be more specific and suggest how we could improve our routes?"
Then maybe you might get constructive criticism describing specific shortcomings that could be addressed.

Hey, so I was just wondering if anything has been done at this place to rectify or what the prevalent attitude at Rocksport has been after this incident has been?

Also, SKI, what have your interactions been like with the involved parties after your private message, as you stated you would be taking the e-mail in there, and they said they didn't want people who complained....something's gotta give!

Just curious.

I suspect things are approaching it is what it is status.

shortguy wrote:...RS uses no extraneous holds on routes, thus there are no extra hands or feet to find an alternative path through cruxes for people of different body types. Getting some "extra" hands and feet up on a route also brings some decision making skills into the routes, a skill not well addressed by RS routes.

One of my favorite things things about gyms is that you don't have to deal with route-finding, which let's be honest, normally means figuring which heavily chalked holds are actually okay rather than being incorrect "phantom holds". (What is fun about route-finding? I would further argue that extra holds would impair one's ability to route-find outside, as a well-set gym route should teach good technique, which will lead to somewhere knowing where to look for the route on real rocks.)

I don't live in Reno, so I don't care, but I don't think that the solution for reachy cruxes is for setters to just throw a whole bunch of confusing junk up.

My list of items I would like to see changed at RockSport. Is anybody listening?

1) A more professional flooring surface.
I trip on it at least once each time I'm there. It's nasty mangy ghetto carpet. I've even seen a dog shit on it. Of course, I never saw the dog in RS again, but why was it even there in the first place?

2) Route setting that involves trickier climbing than a large reach. Use your imagination.

Also, I hate it when the lead wall is filled with 5.12 and 5.11 routes and a token 5.9. Myself, and those I've talked to, want to see more routes in the 5.10a to 5.10c realm. Besides, why even put up a random 5.12 lead that only two people can climb? What happened to "the greatest good for the greatest number of people"?

Also, more routes need to be put up at each rope. There are currently three ropes that noone ever climbs on because they only host hard 5.11 problems. And don't tell me that I need to become a better climber because that's just dodging the issue.

3) Get rid of all that damn chalk!
It's everywhere. When I'm done with a session my clothes are covered in chalk! Most other gyms I've been to have a strict "no loose chalk" policy.

4) Move to a bigger building.
I don't care that the gym is a so-called "close knit climbing community." Not being able to climb on a TR because they're all filled with twenty 6-10 year olds does not make me feel particularly close knit to anyone. Also, the Incline gym is nice, but again, too fuckin small. What's with Tahoe-Reno people and the small gym mentality? When I'm trying to get in a burn, I don't want to stand in line for a TR.

I understand that compared to other gyms, RS is pretty inexpensive, but I would rather pay some extra money each month and climb in a more respectable gym.

Climb harder than those sweaty 6-10 yr olds you're moaning about (who routinely hike 5.11 in my gym) and you won't have that problem.

A different perspective: A 5.10 guy can workout on 11s
and 12s, even if they hang all over it and can't do all the moves, whereas a 5.12 guy shows up and the entire gym is 5.10s...he might as well have stayed home, the training effect is about the same as rubbing one out or watching sportcenter...both of which would have been time better spent.