Gym closures for comps

Dustin Sabo wrote:In fact I would prefer that everyone that made negative comments about the staff to come in for a refund and we hope to never see you in the gym again, good riddance to bad rubbish.

You just made the biggest little mistake of your life pal. Too bad being a Level 2 route setter doesn't make you a competent business person.

Dustin Sabo wrote: Just to give you a little history on myself I have been setting for the past 15 years and have a level 2 regional certification for setting (if you don't know what that means you might want to educate yourself before you sound like a moron). I have been the Head Setter at Rocksport for the past 4 years. I have also set for Rocknasium, The Front(the old one) in Utah, and a few others were I was just helping them put up some routes and boulder problems. I have set for numerous comps and I'm sure that I have a good idea as to what is involved in hosting them.

This just makes me so happy! :) Thank you for making my day! I'm now seriously considering pursuing a career as a setter.

Dustin Sabo wrote: So to all those jackass's with your lazy comments your words fall on def ears. Maybe next time you can man up and join the climbing community instead of throw rocks from afar.

Which comments specifically are you mad about? Are you mad at me? :/

This is one reason why I'd rather stand on my head and pack my butthole with thumbtacks than climb in a gym.

I guess they have there place but I've never been able to see it .

Hey Scott!

Dude, you got some serious Level II Certified anger dude, what's with the email?

"Dustin Sabo at Mountain Project to me
show details Jan 18 (1 day ago)

Images are not displayed.
Display images below - Always display images from postmaster@mountainproject.com

You SUCK!!! Yes I honestly think you totally SUCK!! You are the worst kind of person. How about you stop hiding in the shadows and come chat with me on the subject! I would love the opportunity to express how I truly feel strait to your face. "

P.S.
A "strait" is a narrow passageway connecting two bodies of water. Maybe you meant straight?

"(if you don't know what that means you might want to educate yourself before you sound like a moron)."

We'll chat bud- and it's going to start with me bringing this email in to Rocksport. WE ARE YOUR CLOSE-KNIT CLIMBING COMMUNITY. Take what people here are saying and recommend changes. Letting this fall on deaf ears will ruin you man- and spurning the rest of us, your community, isn't going to help either. Especially here in the Biggest Little City.

SKI wrote:Hey Scott! Dude, you got some serious Level II Certified anger dude, what's with the email? "Dustin Sabo at Mountain Project to me show details Jan 18 (1 day ago) Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from postmaster@mountainproject.com You SUCK!!! Yes I honestly think you totally SUCK!! You are the worst kind of person. How about you stop hiding in the shadows and come chat with me on the subject! I would love the opportunity to express how I truly feel strait to your face. " P.S. A "strait" is a narrow passageway connecting two bodies of water. Maybe you meant straight? "(if you don't know what that means you might want to educate yourself before you sound like a moron)." We'll chat bud- and it's going to start with me bringing this email in to Rocksport. WE ARE YOUR CLOSE-KNIT CLIMBING COMMUNITY. Take what people here are saying and recommend changes. Letting this fall on deaf ears will ruin you man- and spurning the rest of us, your community, isn't going to help either. Especially here in the Biggest Little City.

Their customers make one suggestion of "please reset faster" and now they are public enemy number one? Makes me glad I live close to Hi Alt. Way to go on the personal attacks and represent your business correspondence in a professional manner.

SKI wrote: "Dustin Sabo You SUCK!!! Yes I honestly think you totally SUCK!! You are the worst kind of person. How about you stop hiding in the shadows and come chat with me on the subject! I would love the opportunity to express how I truly feel strait to your face. "

This is the perfect example of how many business owners have no social media sense.

Regardless of how the original poster may have been ranting over something pretty minor in the big picture, the response by Dustin and Kate are about as classic as they can be.

While I firmly believe that the customer is not always right, trying to pick fights with them over a few minor comments on a public forum is the perfect example of how your ego will hurt your business.

A suggestion to the gym owners from someone who has owned a business in the past and who has no dog in this fight.

Don't ever post while you are angry - you will regret it. Be professional when you write as a representative of your business - use the spell checker, use paragraphs, use proper punctuation and avoid exclamation marks, and avoid kitschy phrases like "on the other hand", "for your information", "educate yourself", etc.

If a customer rants about your gym on a climbing site, and the complaints about your gym in this thread are really pretty mild by internet standards, it'll be forgotten almost immediately. If you as a gym owner start insulting customers, this won't die anytime soon and will likely have a negative impact on your business. If you as a gym owner take the time to craft a professional sounding response explaining why things happen the way they do or even enter into a constructive professional dialog, you will have created great free advertising for your business.

While I probably wouldn't be overly upset, I can agree with some of the frustration posted. In this economy and in general where the cost of living far exceeds the growth of wages, why wouldn't you be upset if your gym closes for several days? You ARE paying for those days.

I think that's a problem with some businesses that expect customers to eat costs as a price of using their services. I think if you are paying for a service you should be able to recieve the full terms of that service.

However I do concede that these comps probably help me in the long run by creating better gyms and new style of holds etc.

First, I'd like to thank everyone. This is some seriously funny and entertaining stuff! Though it is a bit macabre; kind of like watching a train wreck in progress.

Second, I'd like to say that as "interesting" as Denver/Boulder can be, I am happy as hell that I don't live in Reno with gym owners like this.

It's hard to tell whether Kate/Dustin are worse as "business-people" or as "Little League parents." You guys are getting some great, free advice here. Disconnect the ego and take heed.

Members who complain should be given a refund for the days the gym is closed or have their account credited for those number of days. Wouldn't hurt to give them some other "Thank you for your patience" as well, instead of the very public "F you" that they've been given here.

I know it's hard to remember it right now, what with little Gwen's impending fame and endorsement contracts dazzling your vision, but I'd bet most your long-term business is from established adult climbers, not from a bunch of kids, most of whom will move on to soccer, snowboarding and Playstation in a year or two. The majority of these folks couldn't give a crap about a kids comp but DO give a very large crap about missing several days of climbing/training. You need to maintain their goodwill, not call them a bunch of rubbish or worse. I'm sure there are other existing or prospective businesses that would be happy to have your "rubbish."

Kevin Craig wrote:First, I'd like to thank everyone. This is some seriously funny and entertaining stuff! Though it is a bit macabre; kind of like watching a train wreck in progress. Second, I'd like to say that as "interesting" as Denver/Boulder can be, I am happy as hell that I don't live in Reno with gym owners like this. It's hard to tell whether Kate/Dustin are worse as "business-people" or as "Little League parents." You guys are getting some great, free advice here. Disconnect the ego and take heed. Members who complain should be given a refund for the days the gym is closed or have their account credited for those number of days. Wouldn't hurt to give them some other "Thank you for your patience" as well, instead of the very public "F you" that they've been given here. I know it's hard to remember it right now, what with little Gwen's impending fame and endorsement contracts dazzling your vision, but I'd bet most your long-term business is from established adult climbers, not from a bunch of kids, most of whom will move on to soccer, snowboarding and Playstation in a year or two. The majority of these folks couldn't give a crap about a kids comp but DO give a very large crap about missing several days of climbing/training. You need to maintain their goodwill, not call them a bunch of rubbish or worse. I'm sure there are other existing or prospective businesses that would be happy to have your "rubbish."

5***** post.

Holding all the cards in Reno they can say what they want without many being bold enough to openly say otherwise. What happens though if a newer facility opens up? All things being equal, the climbers who they alienated with their "the customer is always wrong" mentality are going to vote with their feet.

Tyler Scheer wrote:It's nice that there is such a large, vocal audience to agree with itself when complaining about something as trivial as your gym being closed for a few days. Do you cry this much when you're inconvenienced by roadwork? So this gym decides to host a regional comp for kids, and you can't let off a little steam after work? Man, your life just got really crappy, really fast. This kind of thing is normal for smaller gyms, with limited setting staff. Your options are to either not have a comp, and cut a great experience out of the climbing life of these kids, or to have to suffer through a few days without your fingers on some holds. Get over yourselves. Pools shut down for maintenance, weight gyms close for upkeep, tennis centers get shut down for tournaments. If you can't entertain yourself for a few days without climbing, then I feel pretty sorry for you.

so if you were renting an apartment for a month, and they didn't let you in for a week for maintenance reasons, wouldn't you expect some sort of compensation? or say you rented a car for a week, and they nabbed it for 2 days to tow a float in the maycees parade, wouldn't you want the bill 'adjusted'?

its a nice gesture to say 'hey they are doing it for the kids', but i don't pay a membership fee to 'do it for the kids'. i pay a membership fee to be able to use the facilities on a regular basis during agreed upon hours.

also gotta note that andrew gram's post was pretty much gold standard material.

I blame the competition, or a lack thereof...

I just want to thank Rocksport for hosting a great competition. Other business-minded gyms in Northern California aren't willing to host these comps because of the amount of time, energy, and effort required. As Dustin stated, USAC has loads of requirements and they don't consider gym members at all. I guess that is why all of the extremely successful gyms in the Bay Area don't host comps or only host their own series. I personally appreciate any gym that is willing to take the hit and host one of these comps, especially one as successfully executed as this one.

This comp wasn't perfect, in fact it was far from it. However, as the first regional comp Rocksport has hosted in a handful (at least) of years it was done very well. The setting was some of the best I've seen. The logistics and organization could be improved upon and I'm assuming they will be. In any case, thanks to Rocksport and the members of Rocksport for making this happen, these comps continue to ensure the future of our sport.

Isaac Williams
Twisters Rock Gym
Manager/Head Coach/Level 2 Routesetter

PS To the OP...The weather was absolutely beautiful last weekend, you would be hard pressed to find better outdoor climbing weather.

Zeke wrote: Thanks, that is exactly why I climbed outside on the weekend on level 5 routesetting. It was the four days preceding the comp while working a fifty hour week when I came off my workday to strangely dark, one would almost say "nighttime" conditions that was the problem. I'm glad the comp was a success though.

Was it certified level 5 routesetting? Level 5 is the shit.

P LaDouche wrote: Was it certified level 5 routesetting? Level 5 is the shit.

Damn you, Douche! I thought better of posting this... but you didn't. THat's why you always quote, kids.

I think it is funny that people who work at a gym often forget that the typical working stiff might not have a schedule that allows them to climb during the day, or perhaps even on a weekend. That is kind of the whole point of paying for a gym membership in the first place...

IsaacWill wrote: these comps continue to ensure the future of our sport.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

If anything, these comps are ruining our sport. Unless by "our sport" you mean "competing inside on plastic", and not "rock climbing".

Where would "our sport" be without iconic figures like Tori Allen??

I have to say, Dustin and Kate, you sound like some pretty childish people. Rather than just taking it on the chin, you decide to come here and respond like conceited assholes.
I don't climb in gyms a lot but many of my friends do and they highly depend on it for their sanity as well as fitness.
To the second gym owner (Issac Williams) and to both of you, the weather comment! You proved with this more than anything what total twats you are. Not everyone has total freedom during any given day. You are Asses.

Tom

PS: setting for your own kid is super bullshit. You know you were biased on hold spacing and movement. Not bashing her. Bashing you. Like some one said "Bad little league parents"

thomas ellis wrote:I have to say, Dustin and Kate, you sound like some pretty childish people. Rather than just taking it on the chin, you decide to come here and respond like conceited assholes. I don't climb in gyms a lot but many of my friends do and they highly depend on it for their sanity as well as fitness. To the second gym owner (Issac Williams) and to both of you, the weather comment! You proved with this more than anything what total twats you are. Not everyone has total freedom during any given day. You are Asses. Tom PS: setting for your own kid is super bullshit. You know you were biased on hold spacing and movement. Not bashing her. Bashing you. Like some one said "Bad little league parents"

The wording on this is much harsher than what I would have used, but the bolded sections captures the gist of my opinion on this issue.

I have no dog in this fight, but think that they gym in question has blown a great opportunity to create a dialogue with its customer base. Instead, they came out swinging with a bitchy tone and personal insults, implied threats and an invitation to leave if they did not like it ("I would prefer that everyone that made negative comments about the staff to come in for a refund and we hope to never see you in the gym again, good riddance to bad rubbish.")

Businesses survive because of customers. When you lose sight of this, focus exclusively on internal metrics and begin to see the customer as an adversary, you can be sure that you are losing business. No one cares about your route setting cert, the fact that you slept on the floor, that sales have gone up during your tenure, that you are doing the best that you can, your years of experience in the industry, that you lose money during comps, etc. They just want regular access to a well maintained facility with good routes and a polite staff. All of the stuff you mentioned may support that, but it is not what is important. Customer satisfaction should be the end goal.

It seems that the gym in question is missing the point in a big way.

Specific comments on route setting for Rocksport route setters, from a longtime member.. said gently I hope. I am not complaining, only offering consructive criticism..

Please pay the money to change routes more frequently. Find a way, any way to do this. There are sometimes routes that are over 5 months old up on the lead wall, and when you have maybe a dozen lead routes, this gets ridiculous.

Certifications for route settings don't mean much in my book, lots of routes seem to be set at RS that are kind of bad, compared to routes I have climbed in other gyms. For example, many routes at RS seem to have their hardest move be some sort of long reach. This approach is kind of lame, and is not approachable by the many different body types typical of gym members. Women in particular don't seem to find the RS routes very friendly. This is greatly exacerbated by the fact that RS uses no extraneous holds on routes, thus there are no extra hands or feet to find an alternative path through cruxes for people of different body types. Getting some "extra" hands and feet up on a route also brings some decision making skills into the routes, a skill not well addressed by RS routes.

This might be because RS setters seem to be mostly boulderers.. all they know is the big throw. Diversity in route setter experience might make for a better mix of routes. Try and incorporate more types of climbing technique into the routes.

Also, don't make your clipping holds the worst hold on the routes. More than once, I have felt that the most desperate move I did on a RS route was getting the clip, its a little wierd when you feel the parts of the route between the clips were casual, but you almost fell off twice with a loop of slack in your hand as the clipping hold was some sort of weird sloping pinch angled the wrong way.