Rescue in Eldo

Troll alert! Someone came over from the "Double Cross" thread.

caughtinside wrote:sounds like a dangerous situation which could easily be remedied by a double bolt station every 25m. How many more have to die?

There is another station about 25m down. There goes that theory.

Bi-colors help, but really; my main use is lining out the middle for a rap.

What's more the problem is if you don't already have the mindset to close the system provided uncertain situation/equipment before committing to climbing with the intent on lowering, then this type of accident will continue to occur.

Which it will, this will continue to happen. "Well we didn't know..." Then close the f'n system.

It occurs across all experience levels; either inexperience in rigging, complacency, or (rather, should I say "and") just basic stupidity; by the time the "Ah Shit" comes out, it's too late. Man, I hate seeing something like this when people are just trying to be out enjoying their outdoors, it sucks.

drew wojcik wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong. Once again, tie in or backup folks..

I even tie a backup knot on the lead ropes they provide at the BRC! Such an easy accident to prevent, so friggin senseless... Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

Another option, and perhaps counter intuitive would be to remove all fixed anchors in this area. Then, one would have to do one more pitch to the top (there is a 6, 8, 9 and harder options) that lead to the walk off. I haven't heard of any accidents on the walk off. If these achors didn't exist, this lower off accident would not have happened.

I'm sure this would never happen though. Eldo is getting more and more "convenience" anchors such as the March of Dimes anchor proposal which passed despite solid gear and is one of the easiest walk offs in the canyon.

"I even tie a backup knot on the lead ropes they provide at the BRC!"

... That might not be as over-cautious as it sounds- I got one of their lead ropes one time that had been cut too short for the Tsunami wall (I discovered this on a shorter route, and then took the rope out of service).

I know the person who fell in this accident, and she's reported that while she has whiplash, bruises, and lots of hip and back pain she didn't break any bones. I don't know who was belaying, but the victim is a gifted and experienced climber whom I have a lot of respect for.

Greg D wrote:Another option, and perhaps counter intuitive would be to remove all fixed anchors in this area. Then, one would have to do one more pitch to the top (there is a 6, 8, 9 and harder options) that lead to the walk off.

First, best wishes for a full recovery to the affected.

Removing all convenience anchors would be many old timer's preference I dare say. It certainly is mine.

But, you all know, if you think about it... it is only a matter of time til ALL popular routes have bolted anchors (think red rock and el cap and others). A few years or a few decades, unless the new found popularity ebbs.

I enjoy some nicely developed gym-like sport crags (like Shelf and Indian Creek), but I hope all climbing doesn't end up that way. There is now an expectation that climbing should be very safe. And that the climbing community should provide that safety.

Here we see the fallacy. More convenient anchors = more climbers = more mileage = more accidents. Period. We can never protect the inexperienced or distracted or dim-witted or just unlucky.

And for god's sake, encourage people to always secure the other end of the lead line. Tie into it... tie a stopper knot in it... tie it off to your rope bag...

Climbing in a gym is to ROCK CLIMBING what spinning class is to road biking in traffic. Potentially dangerous.

Diego Rivera wrote: Climbing in a gym is to ROCK CLIMBING what spinning class is to road biking in traffic.

+1

I vote for fixed lines on the popular routes. This way it does not matter what kinda of cams mp.com users tell me to buy or how to use double ropes properly. I have seen it done on wall street.

Wow. I guess I apologize for my own part in triggering what is getting kinda ugly here. It's not that the discussion or even the humor, where intended, doesn't have a place... but I'm slightly embarrassed that I kind of agitated it in this particular thread. To anyone who knows the injured- Sorry, It wasn't meant to be disrespectful. I just wasn't thinking about it at the time.

Installing anchors that can be use to lower off from that exceed 28 meters maximum without some sort of tag or warning is not only ignorant, but a negligent act as well. Especially on existing lines. People will let their guard down b/c they have become used to not thinking about it at the sport crags. The rig should at least be set up for rappelling only (single quick link, or rolled aluminum rings), if nothing else to engage the climber mentally. Its almost like some kind of a sick joke. When you choose to permanently alter the rock, you are therefore somewhat responsible for those who follow you, even though taking responsibility and having integrity are no longer seen as virtues in this society.

Mike Lane wrote:Installing anchors that can be use to lower off from that exceed 28 meters maximum without some sort of tag or warning is not only ignorant, but a negligent act as well.

100% disagree.

Tony B, I believe all accidents have the ability to stimulate good discussions concerning safety and climbing. My language is often less than tactful, but I have strong feelings. After wishing those involved the best, we should think about how to help others avoid a similar fate now and in the future.

Mike, whoever installed those bolts is NOT responsible for this accident. We should obviously use best practices when installing anchors; that's for sure.

But, IMO, less lowering/rappelling anchors, rather than more, at our traditional climbing areas is the way to go.

AGAIN, belayer, secure your end of the lead line with a knot somehow!

Diego Rivera wrote: My language is often less than tactful, but I have strong feelings.

I didn't have a problem with anything you said, actually.

Mike Lane wrote:Installing anchors that can be use to lower off from that exceed 28 meters maximum without some sort of tag or warning is not only ignorant, but a negligent act as well.

Wow Mike. If that were true, than hundreds of rap anchors all over Lumpy, South Platte, Desert Towers, Zion, Tetons and on and on that require two ropes have been installed with ignorance and negligence. Damn those fuckers. I want a rap station every 28 meters from now on. Bringing a tag line and watching for my rope ends is just down right annoying anyway.

Please excuse the sarcasm. I get upset when people want things so sterile out there. If your logic were true, than everyone that put in single pitch anchors 15 years ago at 95 feet was ignorant and negligent because 50m ropes were still the norm. All the routes that went in Clear Creek, Indian Creek and so many others at 110 feet were ignorant and negligent because 60m ropes were the norm.

You see the problem. No matter what the norm for rope length and lower off height during that era, people will make mistakes.

If it is more than 30 meters than maybe it isn't a lower off anchor. I realize you are more referring to single pitch stuff. But, sometimes single pitch cragging areas are part of multipitch areas such as the anchor in question.

Now my panties are getting in a bunch!

Greg D wrote:Now my panties are getting in a bunch!

best regards for the climbers panties getting unbunched or..

btw anyone know how she is doing..?