Rescue in Eldo

Anybody know what happened at Rincon this afternoon? Hope everyone was okay.

A twenty seven year old female was lowered off the end of her line after leading over and out. I was in the party directly above her. As we began the second pitch of over the hill we heard the fall. Initially it sounded like a scary leader fall but soon found out that was not the case. I instanty lowered my leader who asked if help was needed. He observed the line running through the new bolted anchors that have replaced the old tree tat. We estimate she fell around 20 feet to the ground. Initial assesment seemed
to indicate a hip injury.The party involved seemed fairly new to the area, referencing our guidebook. The new anchors are probably around 70m. Moral of the story is tie in or back up. I think the eldo fixed hardware committe should consider tagging some of the more traveled moderates that involve raps/lowers longer than can be done with a 50 or 60m. Seems like this is a recurring issue after speaking with the rescue team. On that note, cheers to Rocky Mountain Rescue! You guys are amazing. Keep up the good work! I hope for a speedy recovery for the climber involved. Climb safe folks..

Drew Wojcik

Addendum to previous post.. The new anchors aren't 70m high, yet might require a 70m to rap/lower. Correct me if I'm wrong. Once again, tie
in or backup folks..

drew wojcik wrote:I think the eldo fixed hardware committe should consider tagging some of the more traveled moderates that involve raps/lowers longer than can be done with a 50 or 60m.

The accident is unfortunate. I hope the injuries are not serious and she recovers fast.

But, tagging well traveled moderates? Then, why not well traveled hard routes or less traveled moderates. Heck, lets tag all raps.

Maybe I'm insensitive. But, when does personal responsibility come into play when participating in a very dangerous recreational activity?!

I have rapped off the tree anchor with a sixty. It requires one to pay close attention since the rope doesn't quite reach the ground even with stretch. Getting lowered, there may be even less rope available if the rope is running through lead gear. I'm not familiar with the new anchors.

Greg D wrote: The accident is unfortunate. I hope the injuries are not serious and she recovers fast. But, tagging well traveled moderates? Then, why not well traveled hard routes or less traveled moderates. Heck, lets tag all raps. Maybe I'm insensitive. But, when does personal responsibility come into play when participating in a very dangerous recreational activity?! I have rapped off the tree anchor with a sixty. It requires one to pay close attention since the rope doesn't quite reach the ground even with stretch. Getting lowered, there may be even less rope available if the rope is running through lead gear. I'm not familiar with the new anchors.

Before this subject gets beat to death again...and besides no matter what your opinion on the subject is: TIE THE ENDS OFF.

mountainproject.com/v/color…

Scott McMahon wrote: Before this subject gets beat to death again...and besides no matter what your opinion on the subject is: TIE THE ENDS OFF.

Lets see. Since you participated in a conversation almost a year ago regarding Cat Slab you feel this subject has been beaten to death.

1. Eldo is a very different animal than Cat Slab.
2. The entire planet did not participate in that conversation nearly a year ago.
3. If you feel it has been beaten to death, why wouldn't you just move on and let others decide whether it is a worthy conversation.

Greg D wrote: Lets see. Since you participated in a conversation almost a year ago regarding Cat Slab you feel this subject has been beaten to death. 1. Eldo is a very different animal than Cat Slab. 2. The entire planet did not participate in that conversation nearly a year ago. 3. If you feel it has been beaten to death, why wouldn't you just move on and let others decide whether it is a worthy conversation.

Looks like somebody's grumpy today?? Should call you Sunny-D!!

Lighten up dude...it's Friday. My post wasn't directed at you, I just quoted your post as context for the link. Oh and by the way, telling someone not to moderate a thread by moderating them is a double standard. Why wouldn't you just move on from MY post, if you feel that it's not worthy? How many multipage threads do we have on cams, double ropes etc that say the exact same things? Simplify.

As long as we're on the subject...what type of cams should I buy? I'm pretty sure that's been beaten to death too, but I'll have to check the expiration date before I post a relevant thread.

Scott McMahon wrote: Looks like somebody's grumpy today?? Should call you Sunny-D!!

Yes, I am. I'm on the couch with a bum knee and an ice pack (off width injury).

Greg D wrote: Yes, I am. I'm on the couch with a bum knee and an ice pack (off width injury).

Well in that case...my condolences. I was out for 2 months and it didn't make me the most cheerful man on the planet either.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery to the injured. I've been lucky that none of my own climbing mistakes have lead to a serious injury.

This sort of accident is an unfortunate problem at any climbing area that have top anchors and are taller than 70 feet. It either has happened or will eventually. If the anchors are at 34 meters, someone with a 60m rope will eventually try to lower off of them, or a belayer standing back down the hill might lower off a climber. If you put them at 29 meters, someone with a 50M rope will eventually do the same. If you put then at 23 meters, someone will stand 10 meters back and down the hill and do it. Sadly, it happens.

At some point maybe the world will recognize that bolted anchors don't necessarily make climbs safer. They do invite 'trust' and sometimes 'reliance.' If you put in something someone can lower off from, someone will lower off from it. Checking distances is something left to the leader and belayer both, so there should be a backup.

Meanwhile, I hope that the climbing population starts realizing that bi-color ropes are not just a nicety. They are a safety feature that warns the leader and belayer of critical distances, this sort of accident could be reduced by using them.

Bob Packwood wrote: How recently were these convenience (and tree saving) anchors installed? I don't remember them.

I could not find any mention of them on the ACE website and I haven't seen them myself.

Scott McMahon wrote: Looks like somebody's grumpy today?? Should call you Sunny-D!!

He's always grumpy

Greg D wrote: I could not find any mention of them on the ACE website and I haven't seen them myself.

They definitely weren't there this summer in June or July when I last climbed Over the Hill.

Best wishes to the climber, I hope her injuries aren't too serious and she recovers quickly.

Regarding the anchors, they are about two feet below the old tree anchor. I first saw them on November 23 and they looked like they had just been installed. I emailed the FHRC because I thought they were illegal, but the FHRC confirmed they were approved.

As I recall you could get off the tree anchor with a 60 but it was close. The probelm here is the climber was on over and out, which is 15 feet or so to the climber's left of over the hill and it wanders a little bit.

Greg D wrote: when does personal responsibility come into play when participating in a very dangerous recreational activity?

I have to agree! I was taught to tie in when belaying (I even do it indoors, where it is totally unnecessary, but it reinforces the habit). I believe one of the most important aspects of climbing is managing risk, and to me it sure makes sense to go ahead and increase the margin of safety with just a few seconds of additional effort where possible (e.g by tying in, using stopper knots and autoblock when rapping, and, yes, just by putting on a helmet).

Best wishes for a full recovery to the fallen climber, and to the belayer, as well -- both were responsible for their mutual safety. If simply tying in might save someone else from the horror of dropping a partner, that's the lesson to take away here.

Tony B wrote: I hope that the climbing population starts realizing that bi-color ropes are not just a nicety. They are a safety feature that warns the leader and belayer of critical distances, this sort of accident could be reduced by using them.

Tony, I assume you are referring to bi-pattern ropes, but I'm still not sure how just having a visible midpoint would have helped in this case. Possibly it may have helped someone notice the middle of the rope was approaching the anchor with the climber still well off the ground, but when lowering I tend to watch the climber rather than the anchor, so I doubt it would have helped in this case. A bi-pattern rope may save time when locating the middle of the rope, but I'm curious how you think it would have increased the margin of safety in this situation.

Best wishes to the fallen climber! heal fast & heal well.

John Martersteck wrote:! I was taught to tie in when belaying (I even do it indoors, where it is totally unnecessary, but it reinforces the habit).

i was taugth the same thing (ALWAYS tie in) by someone who has been climbing for over 40 years, so i figured he knows what he is talking about. exactly like john said.... only takes a second and can prevent tragedy. people may look at you like your a noob, but hey it still isn't as bad as the looks i get when i put my helmet on at shelf!

sympathies to you too Greg D. i've been out over 5 months now after a pretty little lead fall in eldo this summer & man am i ever still grumpy!

John: I assume my doppleganger meant that the belay might have noticed the change in rope pattern while still lead belaying, when you're more focused on the rope. The middle marker would have moved through the belay device before lowering.

Toby B wrote:John: I assume my doppleganger meant that the belay might have noticed the change in rope pattern while still lead belaying, when you're more focused on the rope. The middle marker would have moved through the belay device before lowering.

Thanks, yes, of course, that might have helped.

So, anyone know what is the best way of marking the center of a regular rope? (yes, only kidding!)

John Martersteck wrote: So, anyone know what is the best way of marking the center of a regular rope? (yes, only kidding!)

Are you baiting me??? :o)

John Martersteck wrote: Tony, I assume you are referring to bi-pattern ropes, but I'm still not sure how just having a visible midpoint would have helped in this case. Possibly it may have helped someone notice the middle of the rope was approaching the anchor with the climber still well off the ground, but when lowering I tend to watch the climber rather than the anchor, so I doubt it would have helped in this case. A bi-pattern rope may save time when locating the middle of the rope, but I'm curious how you think it would have increased the margin of safety in this situation.

Toby B wrote:The middle marker would have moved through the belay device before lowering.

Hi John.
Indeed I climb with Bicolor/duodess/bipattern/whatever(TM) you like ropes. When I hit 1/2 rope my partner yell's "half rope!" at me. If that happens before I hit an anchor, I know I'm not about to lower off of it... and so does my partner. It puts a reference to the distance between you and the ground at the forefront of every armload of slack pulled out.
You haven't hit the anchor yet, but you already know what will and won't reach while the leader is still on belay, or how close you are.

Alternatively, once at the anchor, if there are not 2 patterns of rope in front of the belayer, then the middle is already above them, and again, you know you are not lowering off. And you check it every time.

Regardless of if or not you tie in to prevent an accident this is still very nice just to avoid inconveniences of "now I built and anchor and I can't lower off" and such where the leader is now hanging 20' off the ground and the belayer is under tension. They know in advance to go get another rope, have the leader extend the anchor, or whatever.

Jeff G. wrote: He's always grumpy

I'll remember that next time I'm belaying you and you're cruxin.