Question for the girlies

N/A

Climb with girls.

Guy beta often goes like this: "See that tiny crimper up there (four feet away)? Grab that and pull really hard!" Girl beta can be more like this: "See that tiny little indentation above your right foot? Put the outside of your left toes into that, really dig the outside of your foot in so you can press against it, and place your left hip against the wall while you lay back against the sidepull your right hand is on. Press with your left foot, and, using that sidepull for leverage, you'll have just enough reach to get your left hand to that big jug."

Our centers of gravity are lower, and our strengths are different from the guys'. Where men may have reach and power, we tend to have balance, delicacy, and flexibility, along with an awesome ability to compress our bodies. Climb with ladies who know how to use these strengths to their advantage, and you'll find that there is a whole new "toolbox" of skills available for your use.

You might want to do some gym climbing every once in a while. I definitely am more cautious when I'm leading outside, but I think leading inside allows me to commit a little more frequently to moves that I might think I won't have enough power or strength to do. A lot of times I surprise myself and stick the move, and that does so much for my confidence, which obviously helps with anxiety about leading (which I definitely also have).

i would say keep climbing with guys because it will help you attack your weaknesses. also, if a route gives you a hard time due to its thuggy nature, keep working on that route. always attack your weaknesses, don't run from them.

slim wrote:i would say keep climbing with guys because

I would for the most part disagree. Most guys climb like thugs. Instead of improving their footwork, body tension, etc. they simply try and get stronger so they can pull harder. I can't tell you how many guys I know that continue to tell their women partners that they just need to get stronger. When I watch these folks climb, my impression is that the girl doesn't need more strength, she really just needs to learn how to climb better. The problem is, is that the girl isn't going to be able to learn how to climb better from her male partner, because in reality, the male is a sh*tty climber...he is just strong enough to pull himself up 5.12. In fact, a lot of the women actually climb better (technique wise) than the guys. In other words, don't confuse how hard you are climbing with how WELL you are climbing.

Try and find some partners that climb really well...smooth, good footwork, etc., again keeping in mind that just because someone is climbing hard, does not mean that they are climbing well. Then, try and move like they do on routes that are not at your limit. This way, you train the way the movement feels without feeling like a you lack the strength to pull the move. As Brigette stated, this will probably be easier if you climb with women who are focusing on improving techniques that are more unique to how women tend to climb. Furthermore, I think that it is important for women to climb without guys as much as possible. In my experience, there are many things that the camaraderie of other females can provide to other women that males simply cannot give.

Sorry to interject in your discussion; I'm sure its annoying to have a guy give info when you were specifically asking other women....I just want to combat the "your not strong enough advice" that is so commonly given.

Cheers.

If it's any consolation, if/when you break the wall; women end up being better climbers than men, even on ice -- if you got after it with as many miles on terrain.

I am about to break thru that wall and I am really looking forward to it. Thou I am not looking to lead hard yet. Currently I lead climb with newbies and teach them about climbing, I just enjoy the climb instead of being scared out of my mind. When I want to climb hard I follow the boys...

I love teaching newbies how to climb and it is my go to first date idea (at the gym usually.)

I generally disagree with a lot of the answers, in the sense that I honestly don't believe "guys always climb hard" and "girls always climb delicately." It's different from person to person and, echoing Albers here, you just need to find partners that climb better than you (not harder necessarily), whether they are female or male.

And the best way to get better imo is to switch things up. Try top-roping an uber hard climb (and yes, you're going to hang-dog a lot obv, so get a patient belayer for a day) rather than leading something you're nervous about. Get creative & make your own climbs in a gym, then take that pattern and stretch the holds out by 6-inches each & try to climb it again. Start lifting (light) weights at work to build up some muscle.

Also, everyone plateaus in their climbing at one point or another -- the biggest advice I can give is to keep with it. Even if you don't improve for 2 years, just be grateful you are climbing!

Whitney, I don't know how strong you are. In my first few years climbing, lack of strength was definitely holding me back. Getting to the point where I could do some push-ups and pull-ups was a big step for me. Since then, it's been mostly about improving my technique and gaining confidence. I've found gym climbing helpful for both things. Whether you're climbing with women or men, climbing at the gym gives you the opportunity to observe the techniques of really good women climbers. I've also picked up good tips from men, some of whom are also short and some of whom are just natural teachers. I'll never be more than an intermediate climber, but regular gym climbing has improved my climbing immensely.

I used to just wuss out on leads when I was with the guys because I thought they would go faster, and I would hold up the show. Best thing to do, is don't skip out on the lead. If you have a shit show, it's ok because this is where you get stronger-everyone has had their shit show moments-those guys you are climbing with have, I'm sure. Mix it up-sometimes you will want to follow stronger climbers just to get strong, but other times YOU be the rope gun. A good mix of partners-those who PREFER trading leads, those who climb a grade or two harder that want to be the rope gun, those who want to ride the bus and YOU lead the whole way that is at your happy fun level. This mixture really helps. And I get super inspired climbing with women of my height and weight, when I see them pull off really hard stuff, I KNOW it's possible, and usually you'll then be able to do it (and they have great beta if you ask). Climb as much as you can, and set some goals of some things that you think might be just out of range (it may help the lead head to know it's a climb that pros well the whole way-that helps me a ton), and visualize and then go for it. You'll love it when you get to the point where you're going to have to flip a coin for who gets to lead the crux pitch!

I agree with the assessment that most guys climb like thugs. I'm 46 hardly ever get out, but when I do I have no problem climbing things that some of the younger guys can't because they lack technique, finger strength and constantly try to climb things by throwing for the farthest hold they think they can reach. It's pretty appalling to see really. Every joint in their arms and hands are going to punish them when they're older.

I grew up in Orange County when you used to see John Long and Lynn Hill at the local bouldering area. I had problems I thought I could never do since I was only 5'7", and then Lynn, who's all of 5'1" steps up and works out a sequence I never would have seen. Those are things you'd never learn just climbing with the guys, or lifting weights, etc.

Work on your technique and footwork. Learn to climb smoothly and lock off. Climb enough, and hard enough outside so you develop good crimp strength since that's the stuff that will get you past those long reaches only the guys can do. There are people out there who can climb V4 or V5 who can barely do a pullup. They can because of all those things mentioned above. Once you feel more solid bouldering harder stuff, you should be able to make the transition to leading better since you'll be more confident and focused on the climbing, not the falling. You'll also be able to lead more safely since you'll be able to climb in control and reverse moves when the pro or landing is questionable.

I really appreciate all the responses! Brigette your comment about the crimper four feet away had me laughing, sounds very familiar to what my boyfriend told me the other day "maybe you can just dyno to that next move." I would love to climb with more girls but I don't know too many in this area (who climb). The gym would probably be a great place to meet some as well as work on my confidence leading. I will keep all your advice in mind...
Thanks!

Fat Dad wrote:.... I had problems I thought I could never do since I was only 5'7", and then Lynn, who's all of 5'1" steps up and works out a sequence I never would have seen....

And her predecessors, like Edith McDonald in New England, of whom Laura and Guy Waterman noted "'a spunky, tiny (well under five feet), agile red-head,' a salty Scottish nanny ... who burst on the rock climbing scene in 1938 and enlivened it for twenty years." New England Rock and Ice, p. 106

She was a ballet-dancer on the crags, seeming weightless and capable of gliding over the thinnest rock, and as Fat Dad well observes she too could find sequences others would not have seen.

If you want to improve your climbing...get some great instruction from women who are climbing hard....find a community of women climbers and dont settle for "when I want to climb hard I follow the boys...." My climbing advanced dramatically when I ran into this group...not an advertisement, just a testimonial.... chickswithpicks.net

in response to j. albers, i don't see where i told her to climb more like a guy, or to just try to use strength to get by. my comment is based on climbing with a LOT of female partners who completely avoid "thuggy" routes, and then lament that they aren't good at "thuggy" routes. well, obviously. i think that women who primarliy climb with other women are even more prone to staying within their comfort zones.

i agree that usually technique will be your best bet, but even with the best technique there will be routes where power/strength/ and/or endurance are going to be the deciding factor. if you aren't addressing your weaknesses you will never beat them, plain and simple. interestingly enough a lot of extremely strong guys that i see climbing also have impeccable technique. one reason is that it is a lot easier to believe in yourself when you are feeling strong.

to be honest with you, i'm not that great at thuggy style routes. however, in the last few years i've climbed with several people (one person ironically is a pretty strong gal from the south) and really put some effort into improving in this area. its worked, and really helped my overall game.

if i have any one piece of advice to give to female climbers who really want to improve; don't let yourself get trapped into climbing ONLY with other females, or ONLY styles you feel comfortable with.

I'd just chime in...

have fun.

I'm lucky to make soul-feeding climbing partnerships including both men and women... some I met at the gym, some I met at a crag, some I met at events... but I look hard for partners who I feel safe climbing with, and who have a certain kind of energy that I like. I boulder solo sometimes, too, which has been good for developing my trust in myself, independent of partners.

Hang in there, and have fun. There's a careful balance in lead climbing between pushing yourself, and pushing yourself too hard (or fast). Listen to your instincts, and select routes that inspire YOU, not just the ones that the boys want to climb. I often walk up to a crag and a line catches my eye... I can climb above my normal "grade" when I'm that kind of inspired about a route. They're rarely the routes that catch the guys' eyes... and I always have fun projecting (and sometimes sending) those really inspired climbs.

Take care!

It's said that the late Diana Hunter of Eldo fame in the 70's couldn't even do one pullup. That might be (un)urban myth, but whatever the case, that lady could climb circles around most of the guys at that time. Her footwork was superb, I saw her one day up on Outer Space 5.10c, on the Bastille and she literally floated it, a thing of beauty to watch.

Hey Whitney,
I climb with a great group of girls. Sent you a pm. PM me back if you're interested in ever joining us.
Rita :)

The urge to constant improvement can be a two edged sword. Don't tweak (or worse) that delicate connective tissue!

In a lot of sports I've enjoyed over the years, I've found that sometimes attacking a plateau head-on can be counter-productive. Instead, I've found that if I do something else for a while, or do things in a different way, I can have a dramatic improvement. Maybe it's a more Sun Tzu approach to the body-mind connection, but sometimes sidling up to that plateau can bust you through it.

Brigette wrote: Guy beta often goes like this: "See that tiny crimper up there (four feet away)? Grab that and pull really hard!"

Spot on!

Doesn't matter if you are climbing with guys or girls. Climb with people that are just a little bit better than you they will push to your limit.

Brigette wrote:Climb with girls. Guy beta often goes like this: "See that tiny crimper up there (four feet away)? Grab that and pull really hard!" Girl beta can be more like this: "See that tiny little indentation above your right foot? Put the outside of your left toes into that, really dig the outside of your foot in so you can press against it, and place your left hip against the wall while you lay back against the sidepull your right hand is on. Press with your left foot, and, using that sidepull for leverage, you'll have just enough reach to get your left hand to that big jug." Our centers of gravity are lower, and our strengths are different from the guys'. Where men may have reach and power, we tend to have balance, delicacy, and flexibility, along with an awesome ability to compress our bodies. Climb with ladies who know how to use these strengths to their advantage, and you'll find that there is a whole new "toolbox" of skills available for your use.

In retrospect, I'd like to apologize to all of the guys out there who climb with amazing technique and quiet, precise footwork that I only dream of emulating. Those guys exist, it just seems that when a lot of us girls are getting into climbing, we end up sharing ropes with guys at the other end of the spectrum.