White water driving in Eldo

Martha Perantoni wrote: All I can say, boys, is get some cojones and grow some hair on 'em.

And then shave em', chicks dig it!

Wow martha.... somebody sure thinks a lot of themselves and their golden soapbox!
since you are obviously trying to get a rise out of posters (or just a troll), i will respond. by the way, i HAVE lived in 3rd world countries so save the preaching.
i think people are just a tad curious why the MOSTLY wealthier residents of eldo springs (especially compared to 3rd worlders) are not maintaining their roads. maybe the residents aren't to blame, people are just asking is all. i bet if they suddenly closed the bike lane on your favorite route you'd have a thing or 2 to say.
are we not allowed to ask questions of this? does questioning unmaintained public roads that are the only access to a tax supported state park mean we lack "cajones?" maybe we are just curious about why that short stretch of road is essentially unmaintained and our state park with an anorexic budget is?
perhaps you should chastise anyone who questions government actions too... there are lots of countries where people don't get a say.... per your "3rd world logic."
OR
maybe keep your holier than thou posts to yourself and let people concerned with the topic discuss it without the grace of your infinite wisdom!

Jim Gloeckler wrote: This from a person that leads 5.5? Besides being sexist, it's a fairly lame statement.

This is evolving as a sexist issue - so far I see only the male of the species complaining. And anyone with cojones wouldn't make an issue of it. So, nothing lame about it. All the "fix the road" posts are whiney. Period.

And sorry, I don't keep tabs on how hard I pull down and don't particularly care. That's all part of the rampant Eldo "ethic" which doesn't interest me. Maybe that's why I find this topic so ridiculous.

My mom always told me the road to heaven was rough.

NIVEK wrote:My mom always told me the road to heaven was rough.

i like what your mom said.

Okay, since we're still talking about this, I drove into Eldo yesterday; it's as gnarly as I've seen in 30+ years. Watch how the locals drive it...they weave and take the holes on the edges. I drive a Honda station wagon, low clearance, did just fine. The Water Boys may seem like they have deep pockets and should just spend whatever it takes to maintain the road. The fact is that it isn't a good use of money to grade the road in March, particularly since there is still some work to be done with sewer connections. Like Marhta said, Man Up kids! Or maybe try golf, word is chicks dig golfers...

timt wrote: i think people are just a tad curious why the MOSTLY wealthier residents of eldo springs (especially compared to 3rd worlders) are not maintaining their roads. maybe the residents aren't to blame, people are just asking is all. i bet if they suddenly closed the bike lane on your favorite route you'd have a thing or 2 to say. are we not allowed to ask questions of this? does questioning unmaintained public roads that are the only access to a tax supported state park mean we lack "cajones?"

Okay, once again for those who weren't paying attention, it Is Not a Public Road- your tax money has nothing to do with it. The fact that the Canyon is a State Park rather than a gravel quarry was an issue that was only solved around '79. As for the residents being mostly wealthy, think again. Now, on top of all the other uses for their "wealth", they have to pony up lots of cash to pay for the sewer connection. They don't get a choice.

timt wrote:i think people are just a tad curious why the MOSTLY wealthier residents of eldo springs (especially compared to 3rd worlders) are not maintaining their roads.

MOSTLY wealthier residents?

Let's see - there's the computer mansion people and the guys who sell water for more than gasoline and probably a few more. But then take a look at the average house in Eldo and tell me the residents are MOSTLY wealthy. Hell, the average Eldo house is in about the same state of repair as the road....

Get a life people - the sense of entitlement in this thread is pretty lame.

Mike Storeim wrote: MOSTLY wealthier residents? Let's see - there's the computer mansion people and the guys who sell water for more than gasoline and probably a few more. But then take a look at the average house in Eldo and tell me the residents are MOSTLY wealthy. Hell, the average Eldo house is in about the same state of repair as the road.... Get a life people - the sense of entitlement in this thread is pretty lame.

I've gotta take the Water Boys side again here, since they aren't present to defend themselves. (I have had my issues with them over time, I was an employee for a while.) They aren't millionaires, ostentatious, or arrogant. They live in very modest houses and drive decent old cars. They are just business people who want to make an honest living, provide some jobs and a good product; they aren't out to screw anyone. I can personally vouch for their good characters.

Joe Huggins wrote: I've gotta take the Water Boys side again here, since they aren't present to defend themselves. (I have had my issues with them over time, I was an employee for a while.) They aren't millionaires, ostentatious, or arrogant. They live in very modest houses and drive decent old cars. They are just business people who want to make an honest living, provide some jobs and a good product; they aren't out to screw anyone. I can personally vouch for their good characters.

Joe - I wasn't saying that the water boys are any of the things you list and, while they might not be millionaires, compared to the "average" Eldo resident, they are probably financially comfortable.

My point was that the people in this thread who feel that they are somehow entitled to a smooth road on private property should just drive slower and enjoy the fact that the road, rough as it may be, leads somewhere worthwhile.

Mike Storeim wrote: Get a life people - the sense of entitlement in this thread is pretty lame.

Thanks for the condescension Boss.
BUT there is a difference between a sense of entitlement and just being curious about a place you visit often. I--like most of the posters i suspect--are just curious about the matter, because the road is quite bad this year. i love being in eldo and will spend time there even if i can't drive in at all. I volunteer time on the eldo trail days to make the place better. so is it so wrong that when things related to it are in disrepair i want to know why?

Remember the steep canyon walls, and there is only a river on one side. Water runs down, then out on the road. It gets bad sometimes.
This year is worse than other years, in part due to the weather, and perhaps in part due to the "construction" which had several effects, such as blocking drainage on the high side and also puttlign a wall between the creek and the road ont eh low side in spots. The net effect being more water, more water on the road, and more water on the road longer.
They usually grade it 2X per year- AFTER Memorial day & AFTER Labor day. Those are the high traffic weekends and I think that they like the crowd/speed control on those weekends.
Otherwise they'll be parking a slalom-course of lawnmowers out there again...
Personally, I think the road is terrible, but of course it is drivable. It would such to need medical or fire services back there... imagine being on a back-board or gurney and getting evac'ed out of there in an ambulence!

So, why is the road not a 'public road' in the first place? Is it some quirk of how the town is governed and just plain bad luck to have a really popular state park (and not JUST with climbers) at the other end?

Mike Pharris wrote:So, why is the road not a 'public road' in the first place? Is it some quirk of how the town is governed and just plain bad luck to have a really popular state park (and not JUST with climbers) at the other end?

Random Q: If it's not a "public road," I guess it's legal to drink a beer while driving on it?
No one should drive while impaired of course, but one beer between the end of 170 and the park would be OK?
Now that we have to drive super slow b/c of road conditions (and we should drive slowly even if/when it's improved), might be nice to enjoy a cold one when leaving the park.

So I should send the bill to Eldorado Spgs. Mineral water when the poor condition of their private road, which happens to be the only access available to a SP, blows out one of my shocks? DOT is liable for accidents/incidents involving improperly maintained public roads. Very good point about emergency vehicles, would the owners be liable for further sustained injury to a person being evacuated in an emergency situation? Be it whiplash, or say the person already has a broken neck, and sustains nerve damage bouncing about? Just a thought.

Mike Storeim wrote: Joe - I wasn't saying that the water boys are any of the things you list and, while they might not be millionaires, compared to the "average" Eldo resident, they are probably financially comfortable. My point was that the people in this thread who feel that they are somehow entitled to a smooth road on private property should just drive slower and enjoy the fact that the road, rough as it may be, leads somewhere worthwhile.

Yeah, I understand, I guess the perception seems to spread that if someone owns most of the property there, they must be making scads of money; I agree with you completely about the entitlement idea. So let me reiterate some facts that seem to get lost here; the canyon was going to be sold to the Condas, who were going to turn Redgarden and the Bastille into road base, a group of concerned citizens pushed the idea through the state legislature to make it a state park. Bill Fowler was not an unreasonable man; he sold it to the state. The spring complex, including the road, was owned by a guy named Michael Hercules- he never did anything with it-he sold it to the Water Boys, who had the entrepreneurial idea to really sell some water. Fortunately for us all, they also have some scruples, as well as an appreciation for the funkiness which embodies the place.

Mike Pharris wrote:So, why is the road not a 'public road' in the first place? Is it some quirk of how the town is governed and just plain bad luck to have a really popular state park (and not JUST with climbers) at the other end?

I would have included this in the post above; these guys who know how to quote multiple people in one are MAJOR STUDS! Anyway; Unicorporated Boulder County-Road owned by the Artesians-Canyon saved from disaster by concerned citizens-years of negotiations allow the public to navigate a truly shitty road to access one of the states great places. If you want; we can all spend the next several years and force the county to incorporate the town of Eldorado Springs; then we can work on zoning issues so that we can have a Starbucks and a Chipotle...there's probably enough room for a Home Depot out at the Doudy Draw trailhead...after all, if no one is making money from it, what good is it, right?

Phoenix wrote:So I should send the bill to Eldorado Spgs. Mineral water when the poor condition of their private road, which happens to be the only access available to a SP, blows out one of my shocks? DOT is liable for accidents/incidents involving improperly maintained public roads. Very good point about emergency vehicles, would the owners be liable for further sustained injury to a person being evacuated in an emergency situation? Be it whiplash, or say the person already has a broken neck, and sustains nerve damage bouncing about? Just a thought.

Okay, one more (maybe); so-you've broken your neck cratering off of the first pitch of the Bastille Crack; because you're still learning to climb; and your injuries are exacerbated by the ambulance ride; so you're going to sue the Artesians?...Interesting, let me know how that works out...

I'm not sure what the problem is, I drive a 2-door civic and I don't have any problems driving the road into Eldo. Just take it slow and straddle the potholes and your shocks shouldn't take a blow.

Thanks a ton Joe!
Not only for clarifying the issue of the road, but for the history of the park too. It is nice to see there are still some souls on mp who can educate us and not just take cheap shots at people because they don't like the topic.