Sign - Sign - everywhere a Sign (route length & info signage)

I think the horse was dead 3 pages ago...

Monty wrote:horse was dead...

AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Crag Dweller wrote: haha, well, not so much in CCC.

Wiledhorse wrote:CCCC

Clear Creek Canyon Cruiser

Casey Bernal wrote:I certainly agree about minimizing impact, but the added visual impact of a dog tag on a bolt isn't significant enough alone to nix the idea for me. On the other hand, a plaque at the base . . .

Come on Casey, you gotta be artistic for it to not be an eyesore, dog tags are lame... Boats are way cooler

Monty wrote: you gotta be artistic for it to not be an eyesore, dog tags are lame...

Ask and you will receive: DogTagArt

Problem solved. Gotta say I found this tag quite fitting

Getting off this climb with a 60 will be ruff?

lol. i think i just peed myself.

technically should they be cat tags? and dog tags on dog house?

Casey Bernal wrote:Perhaps the Jeffco Climbing Ranger could chime in on what the county would prefer ? (although Catslab is out of the jurisdiction)

Hang on let me change my hats, ok...my personal feelings aside I've never heard that folks at Open Space have an issue with the tags at Little Eiger. They don't make the bolt that they are on any more obvious and therefore aren't really an issue. If this were to become a trend on 35 meter routes it's important to remember to keep the tags small and as inconspicuous as possible. Really this goes for all impacts that we climbers make in the canyon and elsewhere.

Like you mentioned Cat Slab isn't in Jefferson County and I can't say how Clear Creek County would feel.

Mike Morin
Park Ranger
Jefferson County Open Space

If they become a trend on 35M routes, then what happens when there is one that doesn't have one. Will we have a gap in a dependancy? WIll people presume that anything that doesn't have one is < 35M?

Again, I'm not for and against, but the school of unintended consequences is real, and a flunking grade sucks. You don't always get to repeat it.

Ryko wrote:I can almost guarantee my friend who got dropped and luckily escaped death as he bounced down towards Hwy 6 will agree dog tags would have been nice.

It would have been nice if his belayer had tied in or knotted the end of the rope, too.

I still think we should focus on education rather than signage. Education works at every area no matter if a climb is labeled or not. I am teaching a transitioning to outdoors and lead climbing class next week and will make sure this is in my lesson plan, as well as talking to every person I teach how to belay or certify to belay about "closing the system" - tying into the other end of the rope or knotting the end.

Mark Cushman wrote: It would have been nice if his belayer had tied in or knotted the end of the rope, too.

Yes it would have been nice. It would also have been nice if the belayer had been paying attention. A knot, or tying in, is good but paying attention in the first place is better.

Mike Morin wrote:The idea of putting an intermediate anchor on longer routes that would require a rope longer than a 60 makes sense to me. Why not do this?

It's what I would do bolting the routes. But I got out of the bolting business years ago.

Kirk Miller wrote:I think every bolt should have a dog tag with pertinent information such as: which way to face the gate when you clip, how many clips remaining, distance to the next bolt, distance of potential fall on the bit to the next bolt, possible cruxes ahead, excuses for existing next to a crack, discussion of the need for care when climbing, explanation for the condition of the climbers undies, etc... you know useful stuff; things you need to be aware of before you clip into a bolt.

That is funny....

I agree with Tony in that if you start the trend to "Tag" every route that is over 30M you had better plan to tag them all.

It's easy to get off a 35M route with a 60M rope, it just takes using your brain. We all carry carabiners don't we, you generally only make that mistake once. Dogtags are not going to keep people from lowering off the end of their rope, you can do that on a 30m route with a 60m rope.

Why don't you just paint the name, grade, and length of the route right at the base. Maybe some arrows or red dots to point out key features. Perma-draws would be nice....

At some point the length of the average cragging rope is going to plateau. The logistics of weight and tangle-bility are just going to make it so. Skinny ropes help with the weight factor, but add to the tangles. I could be wrong but I think that the 60/70m realm is going to be mainstream for quite some time. 70s are great, but the #1 rule about climbing with a 70 is knowing when to leave it at home and bring your 60 instead.

Long pitches = more fun, but reserve tags for extremely limited situations. Even though driving your butt to the rock is probably more dangerous than actually roping up, the fact is that climbing is a risky activity.

You can't fix stupid.

Bryan Gartland wrote:At some point the length of the average cragging rope is going to plateau. The logistics of weight and tangle-bility are just going to make it so. Skinny ropes help with the weight factor, but add to the tangles. I could be wrong but I think that the 60/70m realm is going to be mainstream for quite some time. 70s are great, but the #1 rule about climbing with a 70 is knowing when to leave it at home and bring your 60 instead.

personally i cant tell a difference between weight and tangles of a 70m compared to a 60m rope.

poor rope management will cause tangles whether its a 50m or 70m.

also i think the #1 rule about climbing with a 70m rope is to know:
a)70m = 229.658793 ft, giving a rap of 114.829 ft, not including rope stretch
b)70m is a nominal length, rope lengths vary, so disregard previous, and just learn how long YOUR cord is (hopefully its around 230 ft.)

WiledHorse wrote:b)70m is a nominal length, rope lengths vary, so disregard previous, and just learn how long YOUR cord is (hopefully its around 230 ft.)

Can't argue with that one bit. It's scary how much the given factory length varies.