Just wanted to say, thank you for chopping my route....

Out of every 10 climbers I meet while out and about maybe 2 will have heard of MP, the world is not that small. On another note, the person whom chopped your route, might have felt it was a good idea and, not seeking any other approval, did what he wanted. Just as you did when you "Established" the route by bolting, without approval. It seems all is even out in the world, minus a few holes,and some epoxy.

I love climbing, and would hate to lose access to any area. I will assume most here feel the same. I hope the comments made by others will help everyone to understand that it is ultimately up to us to keep the parks, landowners, and climbers happy. Good intentions, poor planning.

Buff Johnson wrote:other than the fascination of seeing the ice along I-70, that climb sucks, period. Ya might as well go for that G-town flow; 2 pitches and it's pretty cool.

It's kinda like the forbidden fruit - looks really good because I can't have it! Well let me know when you wanna hit GTown up - I figure if we share the same snarky sense of humor - we should get out on some ice to make it really interesting...

As for this thread - I figure it's resolved. We all want to see fat ice in BoCan, but let's do it the right way, as the wrong way has already been exploited - and we all know that story.

Tom, that is the funniest post I've ever read anywhere on any forum. Thank you.

Does anyone else ever think about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and think to yourself: "Why do they care so much and fight so hard over such a god-forsaken piece of land?"

Reminds me of the BoCan bolt wars.

"As it sits now, there is no way to even top-rope these climbs safely"

the climb is fine, plenty of places to set up a toprope safely.
just did it the other day with friends. there are long bolts /
threaded rod stock at the top (all over) that you can lay a biner over
or girth hitch. also if you step down from the aquaduct (on ledge)
there is plenty of gear from .75 camalot up to a #3. the anchor
that you use for toproping is also high enough that the rope safely
drapes over the top edge of the climb (which is flat)
with no sharp edges or rope wear. . .

phoenix, did you not see the signs you walk right past when
you go to either the upper or lower area? it does describe the
rules of the areas, and does state no bolting on this open space. . .

lead, toprope, whatever. as a ice ninja, sometimes we just have
to take what we can get. thanks for trying to be a good steward,
doing something for everyone. . . it just wasn't at the right area.

cor

jack roberts wrote: Phoenix, you are not doing the ice climbing community a service by bolting a line (especially one that has been led sans bolts) and diverting water, especially advertising that you are diverting the water to make ice...shut down for everyone for a long time. Jack

I agree with Jack, you really have to watch what you're doing in such a high density human area as the Front Range (we're lucky up here in Bumfuck, WY by not having too many of these problems) or you end up bending a lot of non=climbers, who probably don't have any understanding of the depth of our obsession, completely out of shape.

Another consideration is that of water rights, a bigbig deal in Wyoming. You start taking water where you don't have legal rights, which I would bet whoever footed the bill for the line you;ve tapped into has paid for, and you can be in some pretty deep shit legally.

Reading Phoenix's posts I would bet he's pretty young and ignorant of the nasty world of property and lawyers. Let's put it down to youthful ignorance this time, but I would recommend backing off this project before you get into some real trouble and make all of us look bad.

Preslicely Tom. . . and quarry well slayed. Your sexpertise and wailingnuts in this spieled are concrete and gravelous!
danka

Technically your name should be "los camerones" I guess we shouldn't really get technical though given the comment. Both the gender and number are wrong. +1 to the comment Adam Winters made about drama queens...

Come on Adam/Josh,

Don't drag the whole state into this. This is a front range/east slope thing.
We do things a little different on the west slope. Although we have our access issues, we don't whine, we go climb something else.
For all you front rangers good luck on this never ending battle.

I definitely agree with you Jack, a compromise can only be reached though the proper channels. Illegally bolting and farming without permission only hurts the cause long term, even though it might satisfy the short term needs of a few individuals. Think about what ice and routes we can leave for future generations of ice climbers!!!!
I want my 3 daughters to be able to climb something 10 years from now.

Does a 60' mixed line really matter in the big picture?
Will this one line ease the pressures you face in the front range? NO!
Will a legal compromise to establish multiple ice parks in the front range help the future?
Yes! (I know we still have a long way to go,but it is possible)

By the way, that is my real name and I actually do live in Montrose,CO

Stephen Berwanger wrote:Come on Adam/Josh, Don't drag the whole state into this. This is a front range/east slope thing. We do things a little different on the west slope. Although we have our access issues, we don't whine, we go climb something else. For all you front rangers good luck on this never ending battle. I definitely agree with you Jack, a compromise can only be reached though the proper channels. Illegally bolting and farming without permission only hurts the cause long term, even though it might satisfy the short term needs of a few individuals. Think about what ice and routes we can leave for future generations of ice climbers!!!! I want my 3 daughters to be able to climb something 10 years from now. Does a 60' mixed line really matter in the big picture? Will this one line ease the pressures you face in the front range? NO! Will a legal compromise to establish multiple ice parks in the front range help the future? Yes! (I know we still have a long way to go,but it is possible) By the way, that is my real name and I actually do live in Montrose,CO

Funny that you had to throw your opinion in though....huh?

If you hav e a "problem" with the number of "drama queens" in Colorado....Then stay out.

josh

J. Thompson wrote: Funny that you had to throw your opinion in though....huh? If you hav e a "problem" with the number of "drama queens" in Colorado....Then stay out. josh

+1 for being a drama queen post.

At least I live in this state and yes I did throw in my opinion just like 20 others on this thread.

You did notice the the "drama queen" posts were from CA,MT and UT?
Are we, as CO climbers, proud of this reputation?

YaKnow....... You could bolt the colfax/I-70 tunnel walls puncture a storm drain and climb right in Denver. How convenient

Tristan Higbee wrote: +1 for being a drama queen post.

+2

Ice climbing is lame.

I disagree I like ice climbing.
Adam - hows the drama out west? And all that metal in your leg??

Tom Hanson wrote:Ass won oaf the humansexual residunce of Bolter Coloredbutthole. I yam oafended by halving to see peephole bolting and ass farming hump in Bolter Cannedyam. All for the sack of dryhumping with their asstools hump sum cleft on the way to a spot where my humansexual pals like to sunbake in the nudes back in Dream Cannedyam. Whorever, it seems that this behavior is to be expatriated when peephole are pushing the Stannards oaf any spurt. Spurt clammers met with the same faith back in the Hurley daze. Dose anyone member the genric pubics reaction to Paris Gurgle or Savage Pansee, two oaf Crispin Grippits organal spurt roots in Eldovolvo? History repents itself. Such unction only swerves to bisexual the clamming calamity. Make lunge, not wharf for crying oud lout.

Holy shit Tom. I just peed my pants. Nice work.

In general, quality routes tend to stand the test of time. Crap routes (or inappropriate bolts) tend to get removed. Don't take it personally (it is though), if your route got chopped, you may not have given enough thought to it.

Adam Winters wrote: +2

+3

I guess Utah has Mor(m)on's....enough said there.

Calif. has your basic douche bags.

And Colorado has Drama queens.

Cheers! We all suck.

Happy New Year!

josh

Seems like we have all three of those aplenty here in AZ. Ahhh variety....

Mike Anderson wrote:Does anyone else ever think about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and think to yourself: "Why do they care so much and fight so hard over such a god-forsaken piece of land?" Reminds me of the BoCan bolt wars.

I can see the similarities. Both are centered around freakin' religeons that people argue about as if there is some logically superiour conclusion that is obvious...
And both are argued very self-richeously, and with great fervor.

A guy I know said that we need to just nuke the whole middle east so that nobody can live there for 1000 years to get them all over it. I can see whereas land managers sometimes take a similar tack on things.

Some bolts get left in, some don't. If you try to win every war, then all you get is war.

J. Thompson wrote: +3 I guess Utah has Mor(m)on's....enough said there. Calif. has your basic douche bags. And Colorado has Drama queens. Cheers! We all suck. Happy New Year! josh

+4?

OMG! i cant believe u like ttly chopped my route GOD!

I guess we can all be grouped into a bunch of spoiled west coast climbers.