Etiquette when finding booty?

I love booty... Every time i find a piece i fall in love...

I work hard not to leave gear behind because once i do i consider it gone for ever.. i assume that what i find on a climb was left the same way, they said their good byes, the gear is dead to them...

I'm surprised this is a question. Do with booty you found just as you wish people who found your booty would do with yours.

Do you best to find the owner. If you can't find them, enjoy the good karma that came with your found booty and climb safe.

Mal

Malcolm Daly wrote: Do with booty you found just as you wish people who found your booty would do with yours. Mal

unfortunately i dont think the Golden Rule applies anymore these days...

Just like "there's no crying in baseball," there's similarly no etiquette in rocklimbing!

--Marc

anything i find i try to return if nobody claims it, cool you got free gear if someone does then cool you can return it, and feel good about yourself.

Easy come, easy go.

Sam Lightner, Jr. wrote:This damn thread comes up about once every two months... and that is silly for a couple reasons: 1. Can't we look back at the last time someone (an administrator) posed it? 2. Do we need a consensus on whether or not we should be nice to our fellow climber? Be kind. Lets move on.

This forum has one of the worst search functions I've ever seen. That is of course unless I'm missing where I can search titles only and so on. I would guess this causes many many re-posts.

As for the OP, if I leave something, I don't expect to get it back though like another poster said I'd be happy if I did. If I found something that seemed to be worth more than $20 or so I'd put a post up, I'd base my efforts to return in on value, Under $20 I'd just toss it into the mix and put it toward the cause, $20 to $100 I'd put up a post, wait a month and if nothing came of it I'd call it mine. Over $100 and I'd put up a post, get the word out to local climbers, tape up a sign where I found it if I could and wait a couple months before I called it mine.

Guess we all gotta do what we feel is right and moral.

Alright, here's what the standard should be:

You find something (gear, backpack, jacket, etc.). If it's worth it, you post it in lost and found. If no one claims it, it's yours.

If someone claims it, they make the effort to come and get it (or meet you at whatever destination you're willing to compromise on), and bring you alcohol.

It's simple, it works, and everyone wins.

Don't forget that not all gear left in the rock is booty. Sometimes that gear is a rap anchor. There are some areas where you can't bolt so people leave fixed nuts etc.

pooler wrote:What if you are hiking in the rain on a day when no one else is at the crag and you come across some stashed gear(ie: a rope,cams ect..) it's not on a route but someone was obviously to lazy to hike it out, or in. Is that booty or if you take it are you a dick? basically I'm asking if stashed gear is considered booty?

Are you kidding?? Not only would you be a dick, but probably deserve a beatdown. How would you feel if someone stole all your stuff that your worked hard for? In your situation, how do you know they didn't run out of a massive lightning storm and didn't want to carry metal on their backs??

Just because it's stashed doesn't make it free. Maybe it's a bit irresponsible to leave it out but the word "STASH" should signify an attempt at concealment. Read any climbing books and you find hundreds on instances where it starts "we stashed our gear"....Or what about the individuals that are nice enough to spend their time, effort and money to put up routes for YOU to climb?? They are lazy because they don't want to hump the loads of gear required to put up a route back and forth?

IMHO that is theft...plain and simple. No offense, but it's a little disturbing you had to ask that question. You might as well asked if it's ok to steal someone's gear.

Just to be fair it was not "STASHED" it was hanging from a nut at the base of the cliff in plain sight. For the record I didn't take it. Also there was no way this person ran out of the woods in a lighting storm bc it was early in th am and my car was the only one in the lot. The hike to this crag is a bitch so I'm guessing this person did not want to lug all there shit back up in there, but if you leave gear in plain sight at a crag is it fair game for others to use, but not take? Also if you do leave gear in this manner do you assume that someone will take it or do you put that much faith in others to do the right thing? Anyway I was just asking bc I would never leave anything I did not expect to loose in plain sight at the base of cliff.

It's definintely dumb of someone to leave a bag, that I totally agree with and would never do that...it's asking someone to take it.

But you have to ask yourself...is it ok to steal someone's stuff because they didn't want to lug it? In my mind it's still stealing, no matter how dumb they might be. The sad thing is that if you don't steal it, someone else will. I realize the laws of abandonment apply, but in this case it was obvious they planned to return. Sadly enough they would be posting here the next day and whining how the gear they left got stolen.

Props to you for doing the right thing btw...

Just leave it!!!

Dang! Doesn't anyone agree that if its not yours, don't take it. It's not considered 'booty,' you have no idea why the previous party left that piece there, and they're probably coming back to get it sometime if its a piece of gear... And if its just a bail biner, why the hell do you want someone's old manky biner, they obviously left it as a bail biner cuz its an older one. Earn some money and go buy your own f*cking gear!!!

darth jables wrote:Just leave it!!! Dang! Doesn't anyone agree that if its not yours, don't take it. It's not considered 'booty,' you have no idea why the previous party left that piece there, and they're probably coming back to get it sometime if its a piece of gear... And if its just a bail biner, why the hell do you want someone's old manky biner, they obviously left it as a bail biner cuz its an older one. Earn some money and go buy your own f*cking gear!!!

People want bail biners so when THEY have to bail they don't leave a biner that they spent $5 on. It's the cycle of booty, you win some, you lose some. Think of it as a gumby tax for getting in over your head.

Regardless, just don't be a douche... Leave the gear where you found it.

reject the basic assumptions of civilization especially the importance of material possession!

oh yeah, and sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken.

pooler wrote:Just to be fair it was not "STASHED" it was hanging from a nut at the base of the cliff in plain sight. For the record I didn't take it. Also there was no way this person ran out of the woods in a lighting storm bc it was early in th am and my car was the only one in the lot. The hike to this crag is a bitch so I'm guessing this person did not want to lug all there shit back up in there, but if you leave gear in plain sight at a crag is it fair game for others to use, but not take? Also if you do leave gear in this manner do you assume that someone will take it or do you put that much faith in others to do the right thing? Anyway I was just asking bc I would never leave anything I did not expect to loose in plain sight at the base of cliff.

The basic rule is that stuff that doesn't belong to you doesn't become your stuff because the true owner is not proximate to the stuff. It doesn't really matter whether the true owner left it there for a good reason, for no reason, or even if it was left illegally (consider, for example, whether you think that your car could become my car because you parked it in front of a hydrant).

The true owner's expectations about whether his stuff might be susceptible to theft do not alter this rule (consider, for example, whether you think that your car could become my car because you left it unlocked).

pooler wrote:Just to be fair it was not "STASHED" it was hanging from a nut at the base of the cliff in plain sight. For the record I didn't take it. Also there was no way this person ran out of the woods in a lighting storm bc it was early in th am and my car was the only one in the lot. The hike to this crag is a bitch so I'm guessing this person did not want to lug all there shit back up in there, but if you leave gear in plain sight at a crag is it fair game for others to use, but not take? Also if you do leave gear in this manner do you assume that someone will take it or do you put that much faith in others to do the right thing? Anyway I was just asking bc I would never leave anything I did not expect to loose in plain sight at the base of cliff.

Maybe he's just lazy and didn't want to carry the gear out.
Or, maybe one of the people took a ground fall, broke an ankle, and had to be carried out. Maybe one of the guys got a call from his pregnant wife who went into early labor. Who knows?

Maybe the circumstances were such that, if you were in them, you'd leave stuff behind too. And, if you did, you'd probably be pissed if you came back to find your gear stolen.

The question you posed implied an effort to discern whether or not you would have been justified in taking the gear. There's no justification for taking others' stuff.

here is an example of how it works some of the time.

mountainproject.com/v/color…

darth jables wrote:Just leave it!!! Dang! Doesn't anyone agree that if its not yours, don't take it. It's not considered 'booty,' you have no idea why the previous party left that piece there, and they're probably coming back to get it sometime if its a piece of gear... And if its just a bail biner, why the hell do you want someone's old manky biner, they obviously left it as a bail biner cuz its an older one. Earn some money and go buy your own f*cking gear!!!

i just got a laugh picturing one of the trade routes at any popular cliff if this ethic was in place... i know i wouldnt need to bring a rack anymore on things like Thin Air or Whitney-Gillman for example cause there would be gear to clip all the way to the top... it would look like crap too... i think ill keep cleaning up the cliffs and if there is free gear in it thats even better... i am an ethical person and ive returned gear that ive found, many times ive even climbed routes for people at Rumney just to help them avoid leaving gear if they are having a hard time... im not being a jerk when i collect gear off the cliff, im doing what i think is right...