Advice on starting my rack

So, I've seen the light and had a taste of trad climbing this weekend. I really want to start slowly acquiring the pro I need for my rack, but I also know I'll mostly be setting up top rope anchors for many moons before I'm leading any trad climbs (even as stout as 5.7's).

What pro do you recommend I get that will help me with my top rope anchors, which will also transition well into being my early foundation of a trad rack?

I've got ropes, biners, quickdraws, slings, etc, and one tricam! Other than that, I'm starting from ground zero.

As always, thanks for your advice.

Darren

black diamond c4 sizes .75, 1, and 2 . and a set of nuts.

JJNS wrote:black diamond c4 sizes .75, 1, and 2 . and a set of nuts.

2nd that!

JJNS wrote:black diamond c4 sizes .75, 1, and 2 . and a set of nuts.

That's a great place to start. Depending on where you live you can actually get up a surprising number of routes on that rack alone.

From there, add cams as you need them until you have a full set of C4s (up to a #4), and then start adding TCUs and smaller cams as you need them; you should focus on learning how to place the "easy" sizes first before you trust your life (or someone else's!) to the more difficult placements.

blackdiamondequipment.com/e…

A set of wired hexes, 4-10 and a set of stoppers, 4-13 will let you set up toprope anchors in a wide range of situations. You'll get a lot more pieces for a given amount of cash, you won't cry as much when you drop a piece on lead, and you'll develop a good eye for making solid placements without having to worry about your cams walking deep into a crack after you place them. Start investing in spring loaded cams after you've gotten comfortable placing gear on lead and after you've gotten an idea of what you like and what works best where you climb.

Buying lots of 1"webbing is cheaper than buying sewn slings, and you can cut the lengths you need for top-rope anchors. As you start leading more and top-roping less you can start buying sewn slings, and use the old 1" for rap anchors, etc.

Pay lots of attention to the art of setting nuts. They'll teach you how to read the rock so you can effectively set springy things. They're also cheap, which is nice when (not if) you get some stuck for whatever reason.

If you like your TriCam, snag some more of those. My husband and I climb in Boulder's Flatirons a ton, and they are Runout Central. Most often, our rack consists of three or four runners, a couple of biners' worth of wires, one or two old Friends (#2 1/2 or so) and for sure the .5 thru 2 TriCams.

As to toprope anchors: think about acquiring a cordelette/webolette or one of the Lowe Alpine Equalizers. They'll simplify your life. We also use 'em all the time on multi-pitch routes to set up belay anchors.

Oh, and have fun!!

Hexes are great in a lot of situations, but getting a good placement with them can be a lot harder than with a good 'ol cam. Get a few cams, no question.

Darren B. wrote:What pro do you recommend I get that will help me with my top rope anchors, which will also transition well into being my early foundation of a trad rack?

Congratulations on your entry into trad climbing!

I recommend you re-evaluate your question, as there's a couple of major considerations for you to take into account:

1. Every toprope setup is different, so you can't go out and buy just a few pieces that will work in every situation.
2. You're a novice, so even if you had all the pro you needed, you're not in a good position to judge whether your gear placements are adequate for a safe toprope anchor; I probably don't need to tell you the dire consequences of an inadequate anchor.

I think the ideal way to proceed is for you to find an experienced and willing partner (which you may already have) and spend lots of time climbing with him/her on trad routes. Practice setting pro or building gear anchors while on the ground and get your partner to critique your placements. Second your partner and clean their placements so you see what works where; same with the gear anchors your partner sets up. Do lots of easy leads on your partner's rack. Ask lots of questions, and don't try to rush the learning process.

Aside from learning how gear works, this will also give you some good ideas of what pieces you like or don't like (e.g., BD Camalots vs. Metolius TCUs). If you have a chance to climb with more than one trad leader, you'll get to use and evaluate various different pieces; then when you're ready to buy your own rack, you'll already have a pretty good idea of what you want.

JL

saxfiend wrote: Congratulations on your entry into trad climbing! I recommend you re-evaluate your question, as there's a couple of major considerations for you to take into account: 1. ... you'll already have a pretty good idea of what you want. JL

Probably the best advice given so far. If you can't find a partner as Sax suggests, than I would follow the advice of JJNS. First get a set of nuts (I prefer DMM wallnuts) and then get a set of BD juniors (0.5,0.75) and a BD #1 and 2. If you buy the nuts as a set, you usually get them cheaper than buying them individually, so save up and buy them as a set. You could get a set of hexes instead of the cams (this would be cheaper), but the cams are easier to use and evaluate and you will surely want them when you start leading anyway.

Be safe.

This is the way I wish I had learned..... Buy some nuts, then cams and/or Hexes + get the red and pink tricams. Find a short crack route for top rope that has bolts or large trees for anchors, I am assuming you can rig a fixed anchor ( remember redundancy ). Buy a set of aiders or tie your own etriers from webbing and aid your way up the crack on top rope bounce testing each piece.

Do that a few times and you will really understand pro, as you use it you will get a better idea of what you like.

I started with a set of BD Stoppers and sizes 6-9 rockcentric curved hexes. If you are looking to set toprope anchors those will work a lot of the time (but everywhere is different).

I appreciate the experience starting with hexes gave me. They are often harder to place than cams but they are better at teaching you the mechanics of placing gear. Plus...other than a slung tree I don't think there is anything more confidence instilling than a bomber hex placement.

If you want cams too, I second the .5 - 2 c4 idea. Those cams rock.

You would be best off finding a partner who already has a rack and experience trad climbing. That way you can get valuable experience cleaning gear and seeing what good placements look like while you are building your own rack.

my .02

Great recommendations, especially regarding hexes and mentors.

Try this, too, to help you with anchors. Of course, have your trusty, crusty, experienced mentor along to help you evaluate your work.

Find a crack system, set up an anchor, complete with slingage. Evaluate. Remove the anchor, "retire" those pieces and set up another anchor. Repeat until you are totally out of gear. Great training!

JJNS wrote:black diamond c4 sizes .75, 1, and 2 . and a set of nuts.

3rd this.

From there, you'll probably learn what you want/need with experience. You'll probably end up with a full rack of c4's to 4or equivalents, some tcu/other small cams, and another half set of stoppers. But, to start, a set of stoppers and those three cams will get you a lot of mileage as toprope anchors. Also, buy some cordalettes/webbing in various sizes(10,15, 20 feet) for slinging boulder etc.

I wouldn't get hexes because they are no longer the most practical for leading and you want something that will carry over to leading. Don't get me wrong, hexes make great pro, but there's a reason you don't see them on many people's rack.

Evan

Rick Blair wrote:Buy a set of aiders or tie your own etriers from webbing and aid your way up the crack on top rope bounce testing each piece.

That's the best way to learn placements.

I would like to throw in the Omega Pacific Link Cams too as a great recommendation. They are the ones I carry to "double up" on my other cams. They are very pricey though. Some people complain about the weight, but they aren't that bad, they just seem to fit about anywhere. Out of the four, I place the green and red the most (.75 and 1.) My "standard" trad rack dials in right at 6 pounds, which I am happy with.

I like the Trango Flex cams over the Black Diamond C4's personally. They are lighter, offer pretty much the same cam range, but they also have an extendable sling on the cam. This is nice as a "double length" runner. The new DMM Dragon cams looks pretty sexy, but they aren't on the market yet, they have the same extendable sling on them:

mtntools.com/cat/rclimb/cam…

My big advice though, is don't be cheap on the carabiners and spend the extra $$ for light ones. When you're carrying a ton of them, weight adds up. My favorite are the CAMP Nano 23 ones, they run about $9.00 a pop. But when you're carrying 40 or so of them, that weight adds up.

As mentioned, try and climb with other trad rats and see what they use and their system and just incorporate bits and pieces into your own. Everyone has a different system, take what you like, incorporate it into your own style, and enjoy the wonderful world of trad!

Darren, Be careful. Trad climbing is addictive and expensive. If you're not a gearhead now, you soon will be. Before you know it you'll have a triple rack and will be considering other expensive hobbies such as converting your pick-up into a tricked out sleeper and proposing to your girlfriend. My advice to you is: invest $40 in webbing to enable you to TR everything, keep your tent, and never date any girl longer than 1 month. Should you fail to heed this advice for want of a good night's sleep or a meaningful relationship, I would 2nd the hand sized pieces and a rack of wires. Climb on, dude.

In this order: nuts, .5, .75, 1, 2, 3, microcams, large cams

Ive always been a big proponent of BD cams in the specific sizes listed above, however, I played around with some trango max cams this summer and was equally impressed.

I would steer you away from buying large passive gear like hexes. They probably wont have a place on your ultimate trad rack and I am guessing that most of the top-ropeable climbs in NC have lots of tree anchors anyway. Link cams have an amazing range, but they are heavy and expensive. Since most traditional racks have an emphasis on quantity, not range, I dont find them to be terribly useful. YMMV.

Great advice for seeking a mentor and proper training. Use other peoples gear and find out what you like and dont like. When its time to buy, just get what you like not whats cheap. For example, spend the extra $3 for a wire gate carabiner instead of getting ovals which you will surely regret. The above mentioned comments are great of some mid-range cams and a set of stoppers to start. I would avoid hexes as they are clunky and difficult to place and really only work well in ideal situations. Personally I would advocate for 7mm nylon cordellete instead of 1" webbing. The cord is just as cheap and more practical as you will most likely use this on multi-pitch and belay anchors where the 1" webbing will likely turn into a slackline.

DO A SEARCH

John Farrell wrote: I would like to throw in the Omega Pacific Link Cams too as a great recommendation. They are the ones I carry to "double up" on my other cams. They are very pricey though. Some people complain about the weight, but they aren't that bad, they just seem to fit about anywhere.

I agree that links are pretty amazing and great for doubling up. I don't find the weight to be a problem considering that I can leave a few cams on the ground and still cover my range. I just wish they weren't so darn pricey.

I wouldn't recommend them to someone starting out their rack, though. First, they are almost double the price of any good standard cam. I'd rather have 5-6 regular cams over 3 links. Even though they'll fit the range of placements, you can only place them once per pitch. Second, you'll more quickly learn the art of funky placements with standard cams. It's like learning to drive on a manual, and everyone should know how to drive a manual. Once you have a full set of cam, links are a good way to start doubling up.

Just my 2 cents,
Evan

Building a rack is a big commitment, that fortunately you may do slowly. There is a certain respect you should give to trad gear, and while cams are easy to place, they can be difficult to place well. Also, even following a leader can be...well...misleading. Thus I suggest:
1. Buy nuts (I like wild-country hexes too...as they can double as runners, and cam down).
2. Go out and practice placing these in all different kinds of formations, bring an ertrier/aider and aid a few placements, yank in all different directions. You will soon understand what will hold and what will not.
3. Climb run out sport routes/sport trad mix routes and place a piece here and there...this will show what it is like to choose and place the right piece on lead.
4. Consult Freedom of the Hills, which will give you important tips (i.e. making sure your first piece is a multi-directional anchor[bd cam or opposing pieces]).
5. Once you understand how to place passive pro, get advice from a few reliable sources on active pro. Like I said, cams may be great, but placing them correctly can be trickier than one might think.
6. Have fun!

Great advice, gang. Thanks so much. I'm lucky in that I've got a mentor (who climbs with his daughter, like me) who is totally willing to show me the ropes (heh heh). Just this last weekend when I thought we were wrapping things up, he put me on toprope and then hooked me up as if I were leading the climb I'd just done. He handed me his rack, showed me the basics of using a cam, and let me go to it.

Needless to say, that's all it took to hook me deep!

It's hard to build a consensus with climbers, based on the thousands of posts I've read over the last several months, but it seems like...

...I should start with some nuts and then some c4 cams sizes .5 up to 2. That about sum things up? From there, as I get more experience placing pro and setting anchors, I'll be able to judge for myself what I need to expand my rack. That'll give me time to save up my $$, too.

Thanks again. Sweet community here at mtnpj.

Darren