Vitamins and supplements

Aerili wrote: Magnesium deficiency is rare in people, EVS. You sure have made a bunch of claims (including ones I know not to be backed up by much overwhelming evidence, like L-glutamine) with little to credit where you're getting it all....Not to mention statements like "such-and-such are great for your adrenals" sounds about as scientifically supported as the moon making you crazy. To the OP: the supplement industry is one of the biggest rackets in the country, so caveat emptor, aye. Unfortunately, there's also not a lot of conclusive evidence on most of the supplements cited by others on here for this or that, due in no small part to the fact that supplements have virtually no standardization or regulation to begin with. Even if a study(ies) used one certain standardized preparation and found some definitive (positive) result, there are few ways to know if what you buy on the shelf is remotely the same thing. :(

Aerili, what do you take? I'm assuming nothing. From what I gathered from what has been said above, taking these things can't hurt you. Ok, maybe a lot of creatine, and ibuprofen will hurt you, but the other stuff seems pretty benign. Plus there's the placebo effect that Mono mentioned above. That's got to be worth something.

Kayte Knower wrote: Um. I'd say you got the stress fracture from taking 800 mg of vitamin-I before AND after each run, and because you refuse to do healthy stretching or massage anything rejuvenating like that. I was joking about the milk, babe.

Ha! Mountain Project...bringing people together, even people that live together! :)

Yah, Jay, it's puzzling to chart a course with all the buzz and debunking that goes on!

Aerili, you didn't specifically criticize glucosamine and MSM. The mass hysteria for them seems pretty universal, and I think I remember reading about substantiating studies(?)

OK, my question drives some drift, but it's related: Water, water, water, as England put it. The short version is that I have a water habit that seems to mess me up for real adventure. I drink lots. After even a light workout, I can easily chug a quart in one quaff. Then down another over a few minutes. I have a quart on my desk at work, and go through it frequently. Hydration baby!

But then...on a long climb, SOS!! I feel totally parched because I can't drink a quart a pitch. Tackling the Diamond with just 1.5 liters felt woefully dry and underarmed, because I've programmed my body to consume so much water.

Does anyone else have this issue? Is there any solution?

Shawn Mitchell wrote: The short version is that I have a water habit that seems to mess me up for real adventure. I drink lots...But then...on a long climb, SOS!! I feel totally parched because I can't drink a quart a pitch...Does anyone else have this issue? Is there any solution?

ABSOLUTELY. When I started climbing I listened to the advice of everyone under the sun and took all of it too far. One guy I climbed with said that water was essential for combating tendonitis, and I immediately started drinking as much water as I could hold.

At this point, I have a significant water problem. My body is used to having constant water, and (the flip side) being able to pee as often as necessary. Water is a major issue for me. I've always wanted to try a wall, but the first thing any of my partners say when I mention it is, "no way. we'll never be able to carry enough water for you!!!"

Kevin Friesen wrote:-Bromelain instead of Vit I...very effective anti-inflammatory if taken on an empty stomach with no side effects. -Fish oil

I really like bromelain too.

Aerili wrote: Magnesium deficiency is rare in people, EVS.

According to who? Many people get the RDA of Mg, but are you sure that is the ODA? Not even close. In the future this era will be known as "the great magnesium drought." I'm sure you have your own sources of information that you "trust," but so do I. I base all my claims on PERSONAL experimentation and experience, not just what I paid someone to tell me. Thank you very much...

You seem to be claiming ultimate knowledge and sage-itude yourself, where does this attitude come from? How are you so absolutely sure everything you think you know is from the mouth of god himself? I'm not directly trying to criticize you like you have me, I just want you to take a step back really think about what you're saying. As far as supplements, I work in the supplement industry. Sure there are some crappy brands, but there are many that are extremely high quality. Do you really think everyone is trying to sell you sand in a pill and claim it's something else? There are some of the most dedicated, health oriented people in the world working to bring others nutritional supplements that can improve their lives. You're awfully cynical for being so young, maybe you'll grow out of that.

Jay Knower wrote:What abut Creatine? Anyone use it?

Can't speak to climbing. I used it a little bit for weight lifting a couple years ago. It worked. I felt reps get easier and strength increase. Finally reached a goal to bench 300, but I also gained 15 or 20 pounds.

I don't know how it would translate to climbing, but the strength/bulk gains don't seem very transferable. One of the mags had an item a few months ago reporting performance gains for elite climbers who used creatine. But I don't remember the details or if the info was systematic/credible.

Btw, I'm 30 pounds lighter today, and probably couldn't press more than 250.

Hey...WATER. Anyone have help for Kayte or me?

What are the benefits of magnesium?

What are the best supplements for supporting adrenal function?

What does the vinegar accomplish?

I know that some supplements are "sand in a pill," and other brands pay more attention to quality and absorption. What are the best types of vitamins/supplements to buy? In other words, which form or make reduces the likelihood that you are wasting your money on something illegitimate, and instead, supports "high quality" manufacturing and research? I'm assuming that the wal mart brand is probably low on the list...is there a difference between the ultra-organic versions in the health food stores and the wal-mart brand?

I realize that these are all matters of debate, and it is interesting to learn from the knowledgeable climbers out there.

Shawn Mitchell wrote:I have a water habit that seems to mess me up for real adventure. I drink lots. After even a light workout, I can easily chug a quart in one quaff. Then down another over a few minutes. I have a quart on my desk at work, and go through it frequently. Hydration baby!

+1..000! I have the same "issue"! Its not really a problem for me since I don't climb multi-pitch routes very often. Its my opinion that the benefits of drinking plenty outweigh the drawbacks. I would think for doing a wall or something you could just suck it up and suffer for a few days. You won't die, you'll just be uncomfortable, which is what wall climbing is all about anyway. This can be a problem if you need to free-climb near your limit, but if you're just aiding, you might as well be in a daze.

If you are free-climbing, obviously try to only exert yourself when its shady. That's what we did on Freerider. We planned pitches so we only climbed in the shade, then we brought a white sheet to setup a sun-shade for mid-day. Worked pretty well, but we were still totally worked by the third day.

Monomaniac wrote:This can be a problem if you need to free-climb near your limit, but if you're just aiding, you might as well be in a daze.

Ya gotta love that jerk! :)

Regarding Glucosamine, I use the brand-name "Osteo Bi-flex Joint Shield Formula" which claims to be the "#1 Doctor recommended brand*...*Based on the results of the National Disease and Therapeutic Index syndicated report among physicians who recommend a branded Glucosamine/Chondroitin or Glucosamine supplement, March 2008."

The bottle says:

"Osteo Bi-Flex Advanced Triple Strength with Joint Shield is a potent synergistic combination of the latest in Joint Care Science specifically designed for those individuals who are serious about protecting and strengthening their joints.*...*These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease."

Sure are a lot of buzzwords in there, no idea if any of that is legit.

The MSRP is very expensive ($40 for a 40-day supply?), but if you go to Walgreens or CVS every so often they have a buy one get one free sale that makes it the same price as the generic brand. When they have a sale, stock up. I think it works out to about $15 per month. That's a fair deal if it works. If it doesn't, that's a serious rip off. Of course, you could take a smaller dose (1 pill/day instead of two).

Shawn Mitchell wrote: Finally reached a goal to bench 300,

Damn! I was never able to bench more than my body weight (though I never trained specifically for it). However, in my AF days I once did 116 pushups in 120 seconds for my fitness test. Some people are pre-disposed for power, some for endurance.

Shawn Mitchell wrote: Ya gotta love that jerk! :)

Seriously! The first time I did El Cap we naively tried to do the Nose In A Day. At the time my hardest trad send was 5.10b. We brought only 2 nalgenes and no bivy gear. By hour 34, no sleep and no water for almost 24 hours, I was literally hallucinating while leading. At the belay I was falling asleep every 30 seconds or so, only waking when Mike jerked on the rope for slack. We made it to the top. Memorable, but not what you'd call fun.

Monomaniac wrote: Damn! I was never able to bench more than my body weight (though I never trained specifically for it). However, in my AF days I once did 116 pushups in 120 seconds for my fitness test. Some people are pre-disposed for power, some for endurance.

Your very high finish in state wrestling is all the more impressive if you weren't benching more than body weight (though contraction is probably way more useful than extension in wrestling.)

Hot damn! Only because of Mono's sick pullboard pics, his gargantuan homemade climbing gym, his lucid posts on any subject, and his disgusting resume (To Bolt or Not to Be AND Cassin Ridge??) it's my pleasure to report beating him in some physical endeavor! Into my early 30's, I could do 130 push ups in less than two minutes. It was *very* useful while I settled in at 5.9 for about 15 years!

Shawn Mitchell wrote: Finally reached a goal to bench 300,

Uh, how much does the bar weigh? That would be my max bench. I did run a 4:35 mile in high school, though.

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