Chris McNamara, 30, of SUPERTOPO - BUSTED for BASE Jump

Wade Frank wrote:just out of curiosity...Why is base jumping illegal but free solo climbing is not?

I'm just guessing here, but
What is free-solo climbing, going up 10 fet of rock from your raft to a picnic area? Or is it 75 feet of 4th class, or... What if I have to get out of a slot I fell into? Would it be illegal?
I suspect that Base jumping is more easily defined and legally seperable from other activities without making an overly broad forbiddance. It is also more easily witnessed.

I also suspect that it is legal inertia... that they are just going after jumpers wherever becuase they are known to break the laws where they are in place. You know, "We have to make that illegal so we can catch the criminals who do it." Freaky Federal control crap.

Tony B wrote:You know, "We have to make that illegal so we can catch the criminals who do it." Freaky Federal control crap.

Now that's funny.

Tony B wrote: I'm just guessing here, but What is free-solo climbing, going up 10 fet of rock from your raft to a picnic area? Or is it 75 feet of 4th class, or... What if I have to get out of a slot I fell into? Would it be illegal?

Thats a great point, and what could potentially limit what sports we are allowed to participate in. I do see the fine was assessed for "park monitoring", but what Im really curious about is why base jumping is illegal. If it is because of the "danger" of the sport we are allowing the government to determine what we are allowed to do for recreation based on what could happen. Meaning a 75 foot 3rd or 4th class scramble could be determined as "too dangerous" and made illegal.

If I were to jump the diamond on Longs I know that I would face major fines or jail time if I were caught, but if I were to free solo the Black Dagger on the diamond no one would care. Thats what confuses me.

NOTE: I would never do either of the above because I would die! Just an example.

mattso wrote:The Grand Canyon has one of the best sar programs in the whole park system. I know from being a part of it and recently needing there services. I know they don't want base jumping legal. For what ever reason's I don't care. I do work for the Colorado river management plan which is underfunded, and overworked. I am excited for the extra funding coming in. Sorry for Chris's and Jonathon's loss, maybe someday through voting and legislation our public lands will finally be free to do what we want.

Perhaps I misunderstand, but that sounds kinda bad.
Uh, lets say that they decide that they don't want you eating chocolate ice cream, praying in a Jewish temple, reading Faust, speaking Russian, or whatever? Who's to question why, so long as we sympathize with the user group getting the fines?
I presume you support marajuana laws then, never break the speed limit, etc...

mattso wrote: I guess what I am saying, marajuana is illegal, is that going to stop us? No, We just are careful. I don't care what the laws say we are going to do it anyway. It's a bummer that they got caught, but I'm sure they'll take responsibility, and hopefully keep on jumping.

Thanks for the clarification. For a moment, I took your intial response to say that if the funds went somewhere you liked, you approved of the gain, no matter how ill-gotten and no matter the reason. That "The law is the law..."
I still don't fully understand or support your point of view, but at least I am disabused of the mistaken notion I had. So thanks for clearing it a little.

mattso wrote: I guess what I am saying, marajuana is illegal, is that going to stop us? No, We just are careful. I don't care what the laws say we are going to do it anyway. It's a bummer that they got caught, but I'm sure they'll take responsibility, and hopefully keep on jumping.

Matt
Government Employee
Grand Canyon - Natural Resources - Colorado River Management Plan

So Matt, as a GOV employee didn't you take an oath to uphold the Constitution and the laws of the United States??

So Matt, you get paid by the tax payer to waste time on a program that is all about rules and regulations BUT you don't care about laws and you are going to do what you want anyway.

You need to quit your job before you get fired. Choose a side.

You are a closet anarchist. I thought the government did background checks.

Write to
Superintendent
Steve_P_Martin@nps.gov
Grand Canyon National Park
P.O. Box 129
Grand Canyon, AZ 86023

Mile Marker wrote:These BONE HEADS filmed their illegal jump and then put it a film. Releasing it via REAL ROCK TOUR isn't on the DL.

Was the BASE jumper in the Reel Rock Tour McNamara? I'm pretty sure I read that Rich, the other guy in this case, did NOT film the jump.

Wade Frank wrote:If it is because of the "danger" of the sport we are allowing the government to determine what we are allowed to do for recreation based on what could happen. Meaning a 75 foot 3rd or 4th class scramble could be determined as "too dangerous" and made illegal.

See Garden of the Gods and Red Rock Canyon Open Space

mattso wrote: I guess what I am saying, marajuana is illegal, is that going to stop us? No, We just are careful. I don't care what the laws say we are going to do it anyway. It's a bummer that they got caught, but I'm sure they'll take responsibility, and hopefully keep on jumping.

Were you stoned when you wrote this?

Mike Morin wrote: Were you stoned when you wrote this?

No I wasn't. I am now leaving mountain project for good. I had an opinion that has nothing to do with the opinion of my employer which happens to be the federal Gov. and I am being chastised for it. I am sorry for even trying to be a part. Thanks Matso

Mattso, relax, you'd be overreacting to leave MP just because of a few useless posts.

Leah, the report says he didn't film the jump, but some have reason to believe it was in fact recorded. Either way, I agree with the notion that if a person can free solo a route, they should be free to base jump as well, but rules are rules. I would be all for lobbying and getting them changed.

mattso wrote: No I wasn't. I am now leaving mountain project for good. I had an opinion that has nothing to do with the opinion of my employer which happens to be the federal Gov. and I am being chastised for it. I am sorry for even trying to be a part. Thanks Matso

Easy man, it was more a comment on what I thought was a foolish post after identifying yourself as a Federal Employee. I think Mile Marker was being a bit of a jerk, but that's what you gotta watch out for when you post stuff to a public forum.

Another vote for, relax mattso. We love ya here.

I'm a Federal Employee also and an active BASE jumper. I just stick to the legal jumps. It takes a little more effort, but it doesn't risk jacking with my job.

I wish CMac well (he'll be fine) but would be VERY surprised if it wasn't on video. BASE jumpers have a saying, "if it's not on video, it didn't happen".

Hank Caylor wrote: I just stick to the legal jumps..

Haha, like your jump in that "one" climbing video?

mcdbrendan wrote: Haha, like your jump in that "one" climbing video?

It's only illegal if you get caught. heh heh...

mattso wrote: No I wasn't. I am now leaving mountain project for good. I had an opinion that has nothing to do with the opinion of my employer which happens to be the federal Gov. and I am being chastised for it. I am sorry for even trying to be a part. Thanks Matso

You're a HYPOCRITE Matt!! That is why you shall be chastised.

Leah Miller wrote: Was the BASE jumper in the Reel Rock Tour McNamara? I'm pretty sure I read that Rich, the other guy in this case, did NOT film the jump.

Come on Leah. That is HOW and WHY they got busted.

That climbing river and climbing trip has been all over the place. The Sharp End, Reel Rock, Alpinist, Jeep TV..........

Rich was the permit holder and is responsible for his group.

Wade Frank wrote:If I were to jump the diamond on Longs I know that I would face major fines or jail time if I were caught, but if I were to free solo the Black Dagger on the diamond no one would care.

Unless you fell, Wade, then that is BASE jumping!!

Hank Caylor wrote: I'm a Federal Employee also and an active BASE jumper. I just stick to the legal jumps. It takes a little more effort, but it doesn't risk jacking with my job. I wish CMac well (he'll be fine) but would be VERY surprised if it wasn't on video. BASE jumpers have a saying, "if it's not on video, it didn't happen".

I thought you ended up "back in the building"!

"GAMBLER WOULD HUCK IT"