Guiding on K2

Hopefully this won't turn into the accidents that happen on Everest...

denverpost.com/ci_12498707

Yeah hopefully this will not become a new trend and ruin K2 like guides have ruined Everest(just my personal opinion).

The death rate for successful summiters of K2 is around 25%, I believe. Once the guiding starts, it will zoom out of sight. K2 will now become a garbage dump like Everest.

Any bets on the resulting headlines in a few months?

K2 is more remote and difficult than Everest. The people that attempt K2 will have to have more than just slogging skills to get very far on that mountain at all. It will never become the slog fest that Everest becomes with dozens queuing up to wait for the Hillary step. I wish him good luck and hope that his party is as strong as it needs to be.

YDPL8S wrote:It will never become the slog fest that Everest becomes with dozens queuing up to wait for the Hillary step.

Not so, it already is becoming crowded. Eleven people died when a serac broke above them while bunched up on fixed ropes, where none used to be. I think it will only get worse.

Deaths on K2. In the latest issue of Alpinist (#26) there was another article/analysis of this trend in fixing ropes on this part of the climb. But, if they stick to only taking those with a lot of experience, it might turn out better. Who knows for sure though, I doubt the guides will turn away large amounts of money people are willing to throw at the chance to climb K2.

No doubt, a talented, strong, and experienced climber and guide... but, this is definitely bold.

I can't imagine being on a big mountain trip anywhere, with folks I don't know -- almost intimately, let alone K2. Let alone with clients.

Best of luck and success to these guys! Times are a-changin'

K2 will eventually become like Everest. The numbers of guided clients probably won't be as high as Everest but the percentage of people who get guided will increase. At least Fabritzio has experience guiding on big peaks so hopefully all will go well.

I talked with Fabrizio quite a bit about this climb. He has a good plan and knows exactly what they are getting into. It's probably safer going with him than on some of the private trips these days. Of course, "safe" on K2 is a relative term.

It's been guided before. I know someone who has for good money. In the past though it's been done with highly skilled clients and a very low guide/client ratio, i.e 1 to 1. And super low key. Anyhow the route is such a cluster fuck to begin with regarding physical space that adding large guided groups could really be a problem. Imagine the bottleneck getting log jammed worse that it all ready does!

It's looking to be an entertaining summer.

Lance going for his eighth tour victory and Fabritzio guiding on K2.

I think I'll sit back and see what's next. Dean flying off of El Cap?

Well I believe Dean already "based soloed" the Eiger, so we'll just call that one done.

alpinist.com/doc/web08x/new…

And just for a little something extra this K2 expedition is doing a film documentary.

In 1909 the duke of the Abruzzi tried the first ascent of K2 (Abruzzi Ridge). This expedition also hopes to replicate photos from this expedition to demonstrate if there has been any climate change that can be measured as well as film the entire expedition and guide 10 people. Seems like Fabritzio will have his hands full.............
(Where's my easy chair and beer)!

Dont you have to summit a peak before you can actually guide it?

Although its true that Fabrizio has "climbed on K2 four times" from what I know (and my info may be wrong) he has never stood on the summit. Either way, Im sure he is qualified to lead on the mountain. I just find it unfortunate. I guide in the Karakoram as well, but the idea is to simplify the logistics and lead the client to the base-camp of the peak, not hold their hand and push their rear to the summit.

Ofcourse Im bitter, when Fabrizio and his clients leave, it will be the Pakistanis who will have to scoop up their poop and carry power bar wrappers on a 10 day hike down the Baltoro. If they get stuck, Pakistani helicopters will be the ones doing yet another high-altitude rescue endangering more people.

God help alpinism.

Climb with Ali!

Ali,

For someone who doesn't even know Fabritzio and company you are making alot of assumptions that have no basis.

You must be bitter if you can state that someone you don't even know is going to throw trash all over the mountains and on K2. I know Fabritzio and I am friends with David (who is the photographer) and I know them both to be conscientious people who don't leave garbage behind them. And are you personally acquainted with all the clients to know just how they much help they will need? Seems not. Otherwise you wouldn't write what you did.

I'm not psyched about K2 being guided and I think there might be potential for a big epic but I'm not going to sit here in my chair and start accusing people I don't know of leaving garbage and feces all over the place..............

Maybe you should just go back up into the mountains, look after your own clients: watch and wait to see what happens.

Eli Helmuth wrote:Having climbed something previously is not a prerequisite to guiding it. The AMGA for example, emphasizes the development of 'onsight guiding' abilities and I have personally onsighted 100's of routes while guiding (Diamond, Artesonraju, Waddington, W. Rib Denali, etc.) including a number of FA's with clients on big peaks around the world. It never hurts to have climbed something first, but preparation and abilities can make onsight guiding much safer than the average group. Conrad Kain started this tradition 100yrs. ago making FA's all over the Canadian Rockies while guiding. The Pakistani support crew will no doubt welcome this work as unemployment is very high in these mountain areas and with the Taliban issue at present, there are even less 'tourist dollars' coming into that region. Kudos to Fabrizio and crew for not running away from Pakistan like most folks do in the face of these risks and unless you are sending donations to this area to support the school systems, etc, then you've got no right to criticize their efforts. Having a skilled guide such as Fabrizio on the mountain will only increase the safety and environmental ethics as it is generally the European and Asian climbers who trash mountains without thought and take unnecessary risks. Having an ethical and responsible role model such as Fabrizio on that peak will likely increase responsible behavior as I have (and likely Fabrizio has) repeatedly cleaned-up after, and reminded other parties to clean-up after themselves from Patagonia, to Alaska, to the Himalaya. What happened to the "freedom of the hills" to do what you want in the mountains as long as it does no harm? If someone wants to employ a skilled leader to facilitate a safer trip than the average, how is this harmful? If these folks are paying 12k each for this opportunity to climb with Fabrizio, it doesn't sound like 'heaps of money' for Fabrizio once you take out all of the expenses. Greed is not the only motivator in life and very few of us in the guiding world have much for financial resources, and typically don't do what we do 'for the money'- as there are much easier and safer ways to make a living. Passion for one's craft (assisting others) and a love of the hills are the primary motivations to multiple alpine starts and cold feet. Our clients on the West Rib of Denali were very skilled alpinists and they chose to hire Steve House and I to assist them in their efforts- and we had 100% summit and safety success in this process. How is that wrong? How does increasing your safety margin by adding significant experience into a group (the voice of reason) become a liability? Not all guiding, as well as not all climbers out there are 'doing the right thing', but if you just selectively pick on guides and guided groups, then you might want to look more closely at your arguments? Remember, there are many other higher quality routes on both of these big peaks, so if you are a skilled climber why would you take the 'trade route' and put yourself into a traffic jam situation? You wouldn't. You'd pick a better objective with some real technical challenges and leave the trade routes to the folks who come for that sort of experience- it's their choice to deal with those crowding issues and they will have to potentially deal with the consequences of that decision. By the way Ali, you own a mountain guiding company (founder and owner)and propose to 'guide' clients up peaks that you haven't climbed? What is your training and certification as a mountain guide? You look like one of the bigger posers on this site. You appear to have only top-roped a 5.9 and you want to lead big-wall routes in the Karakoram and ski mountaineering on unclimbed peaks: unclimbed.com/guide.html WTF are you talking about dude?

Eli, I think you missed the point. If you read my website you would see that we're all about taking clients to the BASE-CAMPS of big-wall routes and ski mountaineering peaks. If I were guiding people up these mountains (Let me clarify again, in-case you missed it..ITS TO THESE MOUNTAINS NOT ON THEM), why would I have a problem with someone else doing the same thing?

Its true that I own the company, but if you saw my title thats all it says. I have qualified guides who work for me.

The difference is in the perspective. You probably have beers with these guys so you got your panties in a bunch when I wrote something about them. Truth is when these commercial expeditions leave, entire crews led by the Adventure Foundation of Pakistan and Alpine Club of Pakistan have to retrieve the trash left behind. I was born and raised in the Himalayan foothills and have spent the last 15 years of my life exploring these ranges and their cultures and I understand how fragile these are. Im all about what Vince Anderson and Steve House did, or what Conrad Anker has done in these mountains. But those weren't commercial expeditions.

Anyways maybe you should thank this poser for at least creating a page on mountainproject where you can go look at pictures of big-walls in Pakistan and imagine you're up the Trango Towers next time you're on lumpy ridge.

Jack, maybe I came off too strongly. In the U.S. we are used to things being commercialized, routes being bolted, guides everywhere for almost every situation. I would hate to see aluminum ladders on the harder sections on K2 like on Everest; fixed lines all over the mountain.

No matter how big of a fuss some lil 'poser' like me makes on here, the fact is this is the 'mountaineer's mountain'. There is only one K2, the mountain that makes its own weather, and the one that was so isolated there is no local name for it. While this particular expedition may not have much of an impact it paves the way for future commercial expeditions, and they may not be as environmentally sensitive as Fabrizio's team.

Both you and Eli seem to have had successful careers as climbers/guides, dont you think the mountaineers of future generations deserve to find at least Himalayan peaks in their pristine condition?

Ali Jaffri wrote: Truth is when these commercial expeditions leave, entire crews led by the Adventure Foundation of Pakistan and Alpine Club of Pakistan have to retrieve the trash left behind.

Your broad generalizations make an easy target. And Fabrizio's sterling reputation makes your scattershot approach laughable.

Rescue

FZ doesn't leave anything or anybody on the mountain.

Climb Trango with Ali!

I do have a photo of the Trango Tower in my gear room, and someday I hope to climb its flanks in a responsible manner- inshallah. But I only dream while sleeping...while climbing I live in the moment and that is a dream come true.

शुभकामनाएं

I think I opened a can of worms here. The intent was not to trash Fabrizio's image in any way. If you read my first post I said "Im sure he is qualified to lead on the mountain." You can call me a hypocrite, poser, laughable, anything else you can dish out. At the end of the summer I'll be in the Karakoram again, with or without a client. Me and my unqualified guides who were born and raised in these mountains and chased yaks up elevations you hardly find on this continent. Picking up powerbar wrappers, gu gels, oxygen tanks, and all the other lovely gifts you hardcore bad-asses bring for us.

Earlier this year there was a winter expedition on Broad Peak with Don Bowie, Artur Hajzer and 2 Pakistani members. These guys are not AMGA, or IFMGA, but had summitted most of Pakistan's 8000 meter peaks including K2. There are several guys like that down there, but you wont see them on the cover of the Alpinist. Ali Khan on my website has been on 7000 meter peaks, Naseem on Broad Peak, and 2 of my Hunza guides have been on Batura and more,but you're right they're not qualified to lead people to base-camps.

I think I'll take Jack's advice and "just go back up into the mountains." I joined this site to bring a different perspective...which obviously is not welcome unless sugar-coated American-style. Now I can see why no Nepalese, Bhutani or Afghan guys ever contribute here.

As far as the routes and areas listed Eli, no worries by tomorrow everything on Pakistan Ive uploaded will be gone.

Gilroy wrote: FZ doesn't leave anything or anybody on the mountain.

Yeah, "the mountain", as in THE MOUNTAIN..As in, friggin SUPERMAN isn't gonna rescue you..

Best of luck to this expedition, in a literal sense, not in the sense of judging the "moral" qualities of this venture...

PS I hope the 10 selected are WICKED STRONG, and not just "experienced climbing above 7000M" (Denver Post), even my lame ass can get pretty close to 7000M..