East v. West: attitudes, unsolicited opinions, & self-righteousness

kirra wrote: Nooooooooooooooooooo mr marc -- pleeeeeze don't do that

[LOL] I kinda felt like our conversation wasn't finished. When I started stating my opinions and asking them about theirs, they didn't seem to want to finish the conversation. I don't know why, but it appeared that they were just interested in talking shit and being on their way. I didn't appreciate that aspect of the whole thing, but I might appreciate their actual opinions instead of mere shit-talking. If someone is bold enough to offer unsolicited advice, I have to assume that they feel passionately about it; now that they've had time to gather their thoughts (I know that I've spent some time thinking about it since the run-in) I truly would like to know what is going through their heads.

Of course, there's no need for them to identify themselves as one of the people involved, but I might give their comments more weight if they did because while I did my best to lay out the situation in words, they were there and experienced the same thing that I did.

I promise to refrain from name-calling and stupid flame wars if they appear. :)

--Marc

Edit: FWIW, I wished them (in all seriousness) an enjoyable day of climbing on my way out, even though I felt that they'd contributed significantly to me leaving the area early. I'm not blaming them for ruining my day though; I let that happen...based on my interaction with them.

Jared Workman wrote:There is always going to be someone who disagrees with what you are doing, if it doesn't stop you then ignore it and don't let it ruin your day.

I really wish it were this simple for me. But unfortunately it's not.

--Marc

Not from necessarily climbing experience, but eating at fast food joints and stuff I'd have to say that East Coasters are generally the ones that have the attitudes. For instance one day I was out in CT visiting the Coast Guard Academy and we stopped at a mom and pop place for lunch. The guy behind the counter (probably the owner) was real nice and jolly but when I ordered a "plain bacon double cheeseburger" she asked me twice, with an inquisitive look on her face, if I wanted lettuce and tomatoes on it. Now I don't know if East Coasters roll with lettuce and tomatoes on their bacon double cheeseburgers, but if I obviously said in a sober manner that I wished to consume two buns with bacon, cheese, and some patties in them I would have thought that I wouldn't be pushed around by a waitress to have lettuce and tomatoes added to it. Not to start ranting but this waitress was borderline giving me the evil eye to eat lettuce and tomatoes on my bacon double cheeseburger!

There have been various other instances were customer relations between East Coasters and I have been a little shaky, but that was one of the odder ones. I'd have to say part of its from living with so many people around you constantly. One of the top 3 reasons I did not choose the CGA was due to its proximity to New York, I just knew that I wouldn't be able to handle so many people, and the fact that once your "out of the city" your still on a four-lane super highway that has an insane volume of traffic all day long.

So my vote is East Coast.

--As a side note I'd have to say the Mid-West is best.

Jared Workman wrote:I compare this to a west coaster who continually ran over my feet with a baby carriage (empty) then told me to chill out after I kicked the thing and asked them to stop running over my feet. From them I got 'Dude, I moved here from CA because it's Boulder, chill out brah'

someone should seriously stamp those folks with an invisible glow-in-the-dark tatoo

did anyone else just notice that mp.com just hiccupped

Like I said my opinions are probably wrong?? I am just trying to figure it out too? I do realize that there are many really really good climbers, I probably just need to get out more with some cool folks.Climb one day in the Gunks, and you know how hard people in the East climb I am talking more about peoples opinions and letting you have it with out thinking twice. There are all kinds of people everywhere in my opinion, but there is a certain way about locals everywhere you go that is different to you depending on where you are from and your ways.

Mikey

People in the East do climb really fucking hard! Harder than most!! Please dont misquate me its irritating. I just am talking about the 4 people I have climbed with and my difficulty finding the hard fucking climbers that are willing to climb with someone that is different than the same 3 peeeps they have always climbed with. This is not a thread about who climbs harder and I did not meant to make it into that. People pretend everywhere until they are self justified. There is a NY Attitude that is very foreign to me.

Mikey

Ed Webster, Yvon Choinard...? I need to learn my local history, I know there is more? You are right I am wrong. Thanks for your insight to better myself. I am a East Coast benginer and I am not going anywhere. Its defineately hard to find a good partner in Albany NY

Good Luck too

My ex was from Rochester, New York. She loved giving out unsolicited opinions...
But seriously, the east coasters I've hung out with have seemed a bit high strung and opinionated, but once your accepted into the group, your family and treated like gold.
Seems like I've always got along the best with climbers from the midwest or Canada, no ego, they just wanna climb....

To all those quoting we have the worst drivers here:

#1: Most "Coloradans" are not from here, so that is just a strange position to follow logically, like an Escher drawing

#2: I think Ken can back me up here, you obviously haven't driven around Boston.

Many moons ago I took the train from D.C. to Boston to visit relatives after a hard week spent getting a buddy married. So, my uncle is driving and I'm dozing off. We come to some sort of turnpike merge zone where a few converged, and there were toll booths ahead and we were in what resembled a gigantic parking lot. What awoke me was the speed my uncle had accelerated to, I distinctly remember seeing 75; totally surrounded by swerving cars angling either left or right in front and behind us. Then, a semi appears on my right, going waaay faster than everyone. He was on the shoulder, stirring up dirt. The best part was that my uncle, and every one else in the crowd simply sped up even more just to not let the truck in. We braked in front of the toll booth so hard I was strained against the seat belt.

I have always wondered how real all that really was, given my depleted mental state at the time. What does that sound like to you Ken?

Leveille wrote:--As a side note I'd have to say the Mid-West is best.

Interesting that this debate is exclusive to West and East Coasters. I find Midwesterners to be the most prone to interjecting unwelcome opinions by far when it comes to climbing. Having lived in all three regions, though the people are generally fairly nice, Midwesterners I've found are not ones to hold back opinions - be it of anchors, soloing, etc. I think this has most to do with the fact that the gumby-to-hardmen ratio is astronomical compared to the East or West coasts. Everybody thinks they're an expert because there are so few experts there, and they're willing to 'inform' you of the proper way to do everything. Having moved back to CO from Minneapolis only a few weeks ago, I can only say it is nice not being questioned when I choose to belay off of two bomber cams rather than a SERENE three point anchor. I say East and West coast climbers, opinionated or otherwise, should simply be thankful they don't live in the Midwest
(only as it relates to climbing).

these individual stories don't really mean anything in this debate. just because you have a shitty run-in with 'guy A' at a crag on the east coast, doesn't mean that there's not a 'guy B' being a judgmental dick at the crag on the west coast at that very moment also. i don't think there's a right or wrong on this one. with respect, there's plenty of assholes here in beautiful Cali, over there in scenic CO, and there's also flocks of cocks from Maine to Georgia. Yeah someone may have more stories from one place then another, but come on, spend some more time in the other and plenty of experiences will surface.

kill 'em with kindness

and yeah, Boston has the worst drivers anywhere

Mike Lane wrote:What does that sound like to you Ken?

Makes me homesick.

Adam Winters wrote: Boston has the worst drivers anywhere

I beg to differ. I would vote SLC as one of the top three worst driver states in the country. People in that town drive like Japanese Beetles. I've never seen so many ridiculous accidents in one place.

I love their crosswalk system. They have barrels full of orange flags on either side of the downtown crosswalks for people to carry while crossing the street. Watching pedestrians frantically wave their flags while trying to dodge the oblivious oncoming traffic reminds me of an absurd Monty Python skit.

Actually Boston drivers are quite skillful but often drunk. This may sound like a massive stereotype but I grew up around south Boston and well I'm thinking about some people I knew who've been killed in d.d. accidents and it's quite sad. Driving in Boston is probably more dangerous than any run-out on any climb especially right after the bahs all shut. I've been living in Utah for about 18 years and the people, culture, attitudes are very different. People can not parrallel park here very well but they can get up to the mountains when there's 2ft of snow. If someone doesn't like you back there you'll know about it. I thought fist fights and pub brawls were normal but I've never seen one out here. In Utah people act nice and friendly on the surface but you never know what they are really thinking. People say what they think back there regardless of the effect on others. Arguing is an art. But hey isn't that the basis of democracy and aren't we glad for these quarrelsome massholes...lest we were all too polite we may still be part of the crown!

alison wrote:Actually Boston drivers are quite skillful but often drunk. This may sound like a massive stereotype but I grew up around south Boston and well I'm thinking about some people I knew who've been killed in d.d. accidents and it's quite sad. Driving in Boston is probably more dangerous than any run-out on any climb especially right after the bahs all shut. I've been living in Utah for about 18 years and the people, culture, attitudes are very different. People can not parrallel park here very well but they can get up to the mountains when there's 2ft of snow. If someone doesn't like you back there you'll know about it. I thought fist fights and pub brawls were normal but I've never seen one out here. In Utah people act nice and friendly on the surface but you never know what they are really thinking. People say what they think back there regardless of the effect on others. Arguing is an art. But hey isn't that the basis of democracy and aren't we glad for these quarrelsome massholes...lest we were all too polite we may still be part of the crown!

I agree with everything you just said, except for the part about driving the snowy canyons. I lived up in Little Cottonwood Canyon for two years. Locals constantly spin out, drive off of the road, or flip - with regularity. Two seasons ago, in one morning, eight vehicles rolled in BCC and LCC. Parallel parking is the least of that city's driving issues.

And I would take the in-your-face attitude of Massholes any day of the week. You always know where you stand with them.

Adam Winters wrote:I've encountered highly opinionated individuals who think it's necessary to drop their ideas on me about wearing my reef sandals on pretty rugged approaches

Seriously?!?

Marc Horan wrote: I really wish it were this simple for me. But unfortunately it's not. --Marc

Well, it'll get simple the more you encounter such opining and BS. The energy you expend giving a $hit about what people you don't know think about you is a waste of time and energy.

Sometimes it's OK (and very healthy) not to give a flying FU$%!!!!

Mike Lane wrote:To all those quoting we have the worst drivers here: #1: Most "Coloradans" are not from here,

This is true, who knows where they all come from? They have the mentality that anything is possible in their SUV. Time and time again they find out otherwise.

Since 2000, I have driven in and out of Newark, NJ probably a dozen times or more. It's a much faster pace there, but I'd take driving there over here anyday. People get to where they need to be and don't play these silly road rage games like not letting you merge into traffic like I encounter here daily. Nothing but a bunch of self righteous drivers around here.

Rob Kepley wrote:They have the mentality that anything is possible in their SUV. Time and time again they find out otherwise..

blame the SUV closed-course/x-perienced-stunt-driver commercials for that one

Rob Kepley wrote:People get to where they need to be and don't play these silly road rage games like not letting you merge into traffic like I encounter here daily. Nothing but a bunch of self righteous drivers around here.

drive a morning rush hr in phoenix and you'll appreciate folks up here much betta... :)

Jared Workman wrote:Out of curiosity, why not?

I don't know that I have a straight-forward answer for you. I guess the only thing that I can come up with is that my mind won't slow the fuck down. It's always evaluating and re-evaluating things.