Poll: Is Bouldering a seperate pursuit from climbing routes

I like bouldering out of the water on a nice, warm lake without any shoes or other junk. Just climb to the top and jump back in or fall trying. Best thing to do in summer with a bunch of friends.

Bouldering -vs- Longer Routes
They are the exact same, but completely different.
I agree with Mark's take on this subject.
It's all good.
I really think that one of the reasons I've stayed active in climbing for over thirty-seven years is because of all its varied forms and disciplines.
When I get burned out on one aspect of the sport, I simply move on to another, and doing so helps it maintain a fresh feeling.
For example. Three years ago I moved to my new home which is on a mesa between two canyons. The was a ton of new bouldering, so I bouldered, mostly by myself, not wanting to let the cat out of the bag, for about a whole year.
After a year of bouldering, it was getting stale, so I got back into top-roping long hard pitches and leading sport climbs.
Now, I'm getting a bit burned out on sport climbs, so I'm gearing up for doing trad leads and new-routing on undeveloped stone.
Personally, I am nauseated by the climbing community dividing itself into factions, with each clique communally pounding it's chest and expounding the virtues of their particular genre, while denigrading others microcosm of the sport.
Too much of this kind of egocentric quibbling can only hurt our sport and it creates the appearance to outsiders that we are a bunch of loose cannons.
A little bit of this argumentation, when ethically or aesthetically based, can lead to mind-shift progression of the sport.

On a hike, does anyone else look for that off-trail boulder or crag to scamper up?

Just go out on a hike, see if you can answer the op's question. I'm always looking to grab some stone.

I got $10 says a solid boulderer can outclimb anyone on the trad crag.

Chris Morrison wrote: My issue is not that bouldering is better or worse than climbing routes as I get alot of satisfaction from participating in all aspects of the sport. But I think to deny bouldering its place in the climbing world as a means to its own ends is not fair.

If you look at the climbing industry ( mags, adds, athletes and the rest) Bouldering is not being denied anything. The only people denying it are the ones that just dont really enjoy it or get it.

In the last few years look how many "boulderers" are being signed on to sponsorship teams? Getting press and showing the world what they have got. Bouldering is exciting. Its powerfull and IMO is much more fun to watch. I fall asleep before someone can clip their 3rd piece in on a route in a video. Its just not as exciting to watch. So bouldering is in fact getting stronger and more popular.
There will always be those who think its just sillyness.
Those people probably will never climb V10 or have the desire to for that matter. :)

One aspect of bouldering I like more then routes is that if you blow a move. Your off. No hang dogging no pull up to your last piece and rest at the crux. You start your ass right back down at the start and have to earn the points of a route from the ground up EVERY time. No one can set up a cord for you if you cant climb it. If you cant. you cant.
Its challenging and takes lots of focus.
I love my crash pad!
SAL

Mark Nelson wrote:On a hike, does anyone else look for that off-trail boulder or crag to scamper up? Just go out on a hike, see if you can answer the op's question. I'm always looking to grab some stone. I got $10 says a solid boulderer can outclimb anyone on the trad crag.

But what if the trad crag climber is also a solid boulderer?

Mark Nelson wrote:On a hike, does anyone else look for that off-trail boulder or crag to scamper up?

heck yeah! out in the middle of nowhere - get camp set up and start wandering around the area - there's rock galore - maybe it's V-easy, but its fun - usually don't have shoes or chalk or anything, but I still go find SOMETHING and scramble up it.

MikeP wrote: heck yeah! out in the middle of nowhere - get camp set up and start wandering around the area - there's rock galore - maybe it's V-easy, but its fun - usually don't have shoes or chalk or anything, but I still go find SOMETHING and scramble up it.

Good call on not using chalk. In alpine areas such as lakes where other visitors come for fishing, hiking, camping, etc., chalk should never be used. If folks must use chalk, they should hike up into the talus and find something out of sight to put paw prints all over.

just the other day I stumbled upon this article on Climbing.com by a well-know photography/climber which I feel is very true:

"The divisions that used to separate trad, sport, and mountain climbing are becoming less and less defined. Today’s climber understands it’s all part of the same pond: a skinny boulderer pushing standards in a gym sends out ripples that eventually make it to the mountains." - Jim Thornburg

climbing.com/community/pers…

i look at it this way. as a rock climbing community as a whole, boulderers are visonaries. pioneers in the sense of creating what is possible. bouldering allows technique to be created and refined... to make possible what was once considered impossible.. to be employed by themselves or others on routes.

historically, technique has been constantly developed and refined. take a look at the old masters of stone videos. excellent climbers, sure, but the style in which they climbed "back then" (actually not that long ago) was more dynamic and dare i say, sloppy, than watching the elite climbers of today. the hardest of problems, routes, whatever, are now warm-ups today. for example, look at the development of a standard knee-bar technique and how that changed climbers technique in rifle.

back to the bouldering concept. since it is pure focus of raw movement... a snapshot of the impossible, then it inherently is also focused heavily on ratings... more so than roped climbing. a recreational boulderer views it as a means to an end and do it for the pure enjoyment of unhindered movement over stone. however, i would guess a climber who ONLY boulderers is pushing the limits of themselves and the sport. if this makes any sense, on a continuum, i would put it as bouldering, sport climbing, red/head-point trad, traditional free routes, wall routes, aid climbing, mountaineering... as decreasing focus/importance on "rating". however, extreme aid climbers are also pushing the limits, and constantly pushing what is possible with gear technology and constant refinement in techniques (someday there may actually be an A6 rating...). i havent quite thought this all through completely, but i may be going out on a limb here.

if you look also at that continuum, i would also venture to say that is also related to limitations of equipment technology. in other words, bouldering needs little amount of gear, where on the other end, mountaineering is very gear intensive. (again, this is all theoretical and applys to the small percentage of the upper elite who are setting the standards for the sport.

for everyone else, when standards are raised, techniques imagined/refined, and technology developed it makes things safer and enjoyable for oureselves to push our personal limits.

i have only been climbing a relatively short time (12 years)and am very passionate and interested in climbing history, so it has been interesting and inspiring to see the acceleration of advancement of the sport.

darn. andy, while i was going off on my wordy discussion, i didnt even notice your Thornburg quote which summed up what i was trying to say.

cool.

Not So Famous Old Dude wrote: Good call on not using chalk. In alpine areas such as lakes where other visitors come for fishing, hiking, camping, etc., chalk should never be used.

I'm with you Dude, I always try to fill my chalk bag with the indigenous dirt if I need to calm down my sweaty palms! Usually works pretty well and keeps it in the local environment.

I love Bouldering, but it is usually what we do when we are too tired or lazy to do real routes! ;)

One must be a bit masochistic to really be into bouldering, all of those flappers, pulled tendons, and failing... But hey, it's close to the ground, so you can bail whenever.

outclimb ?
What does that mean ?
Is that something one does in the outback ?

Oh, you mean out climb...
Ok, what does that mean ?
Pull a harder move ?
Place cleaner gear ?
Climb faster ?
Do more first ascents ?
Get up harder routes ?
Flash harder routes ?
Pink point harder routes ?
Yard on mankier gear ?
Have bigger biceps ?
Have skinnier legs ?
Have a bigger chalk bag ?
Don't use chalk ?
Look elegant on a 5.7 or sketch your way up a 5.12 ?

Gee, I'm confused...
Years back when I was climbing in the 12/13 range,
winning bouldering contests, yada yada yada,
some of the local long trad 5.9s used to give me the willies.
And I'd been climbing 10-15 years already.
And I'd done lots of long trad routes.

Now, I'm climbing 9s/10s mostly and sometimes those longer scary trad 9s are cakewalk. They're now often totally enjoyable, and I feel totally in control.

When was I a better climber ?

Ah, if I could only morph my young and old self, then I would be out climbing myself (rather than sitting at a desk working.) Unfortunately, it's only going to happen in the dreamtime of the outback.

i think it's undeniable that bouldering is climbing, and whether or not it's a worthwhile pursuit "in and of itself" depends, i think, on how my you like to boulder. where i did my undergrad, our climbing wall was pitiful. it was in an old squash court, the side walls, vertical and about 20 ft. deep and 20 ft. high, provided some top rope routes, but they weren't really worth climbing. the back wall was a 45 degree overhanging bouldering cave, and that's where my climbing buddies and i did all our training. this translated well to the sport crag, where serious endurance wasn't much of an issue, but technique and strength were important.

that said, i'd never drive hours for bouldering. i'm relocating to fort collins, though, and i do plan on bike rides out to horsetooth reservoir for bouldering action this summer. it's fun, it's climbing, but what really makes me salivate is long trad and tough sport.

Personally, I always used bouldering to help improve the techniques that I sucked at. I could flail and hit the deck while I was trying to learn how to actually enjoy laybacking, or OW. Also, it was always a good excuse to sit around with your friends, swill beer, and insult each other's climbing prowess.

But... are there any boulderers who climb routes to train for bouldering?

I could see bouldering as separate from climbing routes, but ultimately route climbers will probably at least use bouldering for training.

Is tree climbing separate from rock climbing? Is climbing granite separate from climbing limestone? Can a crack climber be called a rock climber if they don't use any holds?

It's all climbing... It's about some combination of gymnastic movement, gaining elevation, and overcoming fear.

Bouldering -- Outlast, Outwit, Outclimb

Or is it just pebble pulling all along??

$10

I am not a rocket scientist but you would think that bouldering would have been the first type of climbing developed. Therefore making it the mother superior of all other disciplines. Shouldnt you trad monkeys be paying homage to her instead debating it being a valid form of actual climbing and not training? :) Seems like people would have been climbing ropeless/solo before any ropes or gear was produced for saftey. Could be wrong.

I tend to use sport climbing for training purposes to build more endurance for more powerfull bouldering. Despite the short nature of most boulder problems having the stamina to do them still comes into account. Its hard to build endurance unless taking countless laps on a traverse or high ball and even then I don't feel it gives you the same burn as a long route does.

It's all great fun though.

Even though I experienced my first taste of technical rock climbing 18 years ago, I've only recently become reacquainted. But I have climbed boulders since I was a young boy, and have continued ever since.

In my opinion, bouldering can exist as a worthwhile pursuit because it is extremely challenging in and of itself, and offers substantial reward for anyone so inclined to tackle the problems they are faced with. It is definitely a credible aspect to the sport, and one which allows any climber instant and readily accessible opportunities to exercise their abilities. I don't have a regular climbing partner, so bouldering is a completely satisfying alternative to roped climbing, and will be a target activity for years to come.

Chris Morrison wrote: My Buddy: And traversing bouldering problems are totally worthless."

I've spent the entire summer traversing the Upper Y Traverse at Flagstaff. I've traversed the Nautilus in Morrison literally hundreds of times. Same for Upper Wisdom in Morrison. It took me four years to complete the Piano Boulder Traverse at Horsetooth Res. My recent project(when I'm visiting my Mom in Fort Collins) is the Torture Chamber Traverse. I've gotten to the point of completing the Meditation Boulder traverse multiple times(on a strong day). Traversing the B1- traverse to the B5.10 face climb at Horsetooth Res. has finally been completed(barely). I've completed half of Punk Rock Traverse without falling off, and, have gotten to the point where I can make the moves but can't link them together.

Bouldering and climbing are one and the same, especially after the arrival of my son. He is keeping me strong at eleven months old. Traversing bouldering problems is not worthless. Why would your buddy mention this?