which south platte book to purchase?

so any opinions on which south platte book to pick up?

Trout's select guide is the best currently in print. The old Hubble/Rolofson guide to the Platte and Garden of the Gods is the second best in my opinion.

i'll have to heartily disagree w/ kevin on this one. there are tons of errors in the blue/green '98 hubbel guide, but it more than makes up for it with the sheer number of routes and areas. this book has spawned more adventures for me than any other guidebook (or perhaps sum of all other guidebooks). trout's book is pretty cool, but it is super lean, and it also has a ton of errors in it. the white ('88) hubbel guide is also good as it has FA info and has significantly more routes and areas than the trout guide, yet significantly less than the blue/green '98 hubbel guide. i have all 3 and peruse through all of them all of the time.

All available books are pretty crappy. Maybe there's an opportunity for a would-be author.

pandoras box.

what is community opinion of the ethics of even having an updated and complete guidebook of the platte? Would this be accepted by all, or by most? while capturing a significant bit of colorado climbing history, documenting long lost and new routes, would this really be a good idea? what i think would be the best outcome, would be a clear explanation of south platte trad ethic and style. a good read is Cheyney's intro and history in his "For Turkey's Only" book. this captures the not only the style of Turkey, but the rest of the platte.

something to be said for the sense of adventure to be climbing off the beaten path, on unknown, or poorly documented routes. one of few places left, IMO. Is the platte such a place for such cookbook type of info? i have been back and forth with the idea for years. and to do it justice, would be a lot of time and work. pete dedicated some 10 years to his guide. a lot of locals may not be so forthright with new information. but could you imagine a full color guide!? wow, the thing would end up being twice as thick as hubbels, and would open up many new areas that havent been tapped yet. (or not for 30 years anyway). if you write it, they will come. i must say there is a great deal of satisfaction with "figuring it out yourself". Virtual FAs.

with a new platte guidebook would come a lot of rules. some people do not like rules. the south platte has been known to have much gray area and disagreement with "rules". Many many laws have always existed in wilderness areas and national forest that some may not know exist, or see get enforced.

i hope i spur on a good discussion. plenty more i want to say, but would love to hear opinions from the community, like platte legends that post to this site. Gallagher, Trout, D'Antonio, Green, Miller, Mitchel, McLaughlin, Smith, Rolofson. as well as the many of you i know have spent a great deal of time in the Splatte: Stricker, slim, Bell, Levin, Horan, Anderson, Wright, Faber, Rezucha, to name a few...

I totally agree Darren, the adventures are great. It took a few times to figure out how to get to Da Butts and an easier way to Asshole Rock but the adventures were worth it. I'm not to sure if crowds will come because of a new guide book. This website is really one of the best guide books out there for the Platte. I'm sure there would be a little less traffic if this site did not exist but it is never crowded.

Hey John, what are you doing on the computer? Shouldn't you be on an offwidth in the Platte? I would be out there myself but I have kid duty today.

i'm always in for a day or so of wandering to find some hidden gems, learn the area a bit...sounds like there is a lot to be had so long as hiking and scrambling are enjoyable for ya' before some great granite:-) really enjoy the history on all the different areas and it would be great to see a little more on areas such as the platte...that's probally why it sees little traffic, so nevermind. appreciate the help with the platte area everyone

I think a new platte guide is unnecessary. The areas that are concentrated with quality routes are already well documented in the Trout guide. The other areas are enjoyable as "virtual FA's" as well as my favorite "alzheimer FA".
This website fills the role of updating access and route conditions, for example Sphinx Rock. Also bringing in new route information for areas like Thunder Ridge (thanks for that guys).
So keep posting quality descriptions to interesting formations!

all of them!

My respect to any person who undertakes the challenge of authoring a guidebook . To do one that pleases all readers is a thankless Catch-22 . In the past it was harder to get or share information . These days with the help of Mountain Project I think we all have a new and unique chance through this medium to share what we know easily , accurately , and to the benefit of all . It is always nice to see and hear of new climbs that inspire us. The grade does not matter. The quality of stone does. Shared sunny days with our friends give us memories to cling to . Now that I am officially an old guy - 50 - I find that I cling to my memories a bit better than I do to the stone.
Personally , for me , the Platte has helped to influence my climbing style . Bold men and women went before me putting up routes. I respect their efforts . Their commitment led them to be in places that they longed to be. No matter what the risks , adventure lured them upward . I was always told that the Platte was an area that was rich in history. I intend to do my part to continue that style of climbing . As for an all inclusive guide ........ Good luck. Maybe here -M. P. we can share the BEST OF THE BEST. While some poor soul toils over a big fat book to write over the next 10 years , we can all share enough to get each other out the door to some fresh stone . For my part I have posted some info about Thunder Ridge . The stuff I am posting is THE BEST OF ....... Enough to show people the main goods. After you are there- there is plenty of adventure to find on your own as well . We- Glenn Schuler - and I know that our little spot will be forever changed but what good does it do to put up routes if you don't ever share? As per other South Platte climbing areas I have been - all routes at the Ridge have been drilled on the lead .
Let us use this site to promote the kind of climbing community we all can be proud to be a part of.
Share with our old friends- make new ones. Go to the hills and play. Enjoy . So tell me ......... What is in your backyard? C'mon..........
Let me also thank all of the people that make this site the BEST OF THE BEST. Those who manage and maintain M.P. for the good of us all. THANK YOU .
Now about YOUR little spot eh?

Bob D'Antonio wrote: Lots of different styles have been used for new routes over the past 30 years that I have been climbing there.

Some with slightly more long lasting success than others - right Bob?

Sorry, couldn't resist.....

Anyway, to the question of books - as long as you don't rely on the Hubbell guides to find the actual rocks, they serve their purpose, more or less. Combine that with the info on this website and you should be in good shape.

As for Slim's comment that the 88 guide is useful because it has FA info, I can only say that it is a shame that the first guidebook author to the area included so much historically inaccurate and blatantly false information. There are literally dozens of climbs where Hubbell takes credit for the FA when the climb in question had been done years prior and in many cases had more than one ascent. Perhaps the crap he got about it led to the deletion in the next edition......

Like Bob, I have been climbing there for over 30 years - I have route notes on hundreds of different climbs in many areas. There are a large number of areas with established climbs that are not in any guide. Go out and get Topo maps like we did back in the 70's - you will be surprised how many climbable rocks there are down there. Just don't be surprised when you discover a "new" area, only to find that there have already been climbs established. If you want to climb by the dots there is always Bolted Canyon or Shelf Road. If you want adventure, try finding something new!

excellent posts!

encore!

Damn its been like 4 or 5 years since i've been to the bucksnort, awesome lil' saloon ya' gotta love it. so bob are you talking about like an old climbing journal or what's the deal with the brown book, something to ask about while i'm at the bar? it's a surreal area i've been hiking and camping around there a few times but have yet to climb there. also when i've been down there before i had a few friends who lived on a very large plot of land guiding youth trips so i always had an amazing secluded place to camp...she's no longer working with the company so curious about any nice remote camping tucked near some good cliffs. appreciate the info again everyone

There's good camping all over the platte.

Bob,

I guess intolerance by some is the best description and my statement was not meant to be sarcastic - it's factual. My statement won't fuel any fires, but a new route that the Splatte chopper does not like will. Some styles of climbs tend to be erased, specifically rap-bolted ones. We have beaten this dead horse a million times. The Splatte does have a checkered past and the routes that get chopped and the ones that stay have more to do with who established them than the way they were established. The further south towards the Springs you head, the worse the problem seems to get.

The notebook at the Bucksnort has been missing for years....

My criticism of Hubbell is more than valid. Yes, people did not report routes by choice, myself included. A simple "FA-unknown" would have sufficed, but instead, Pete decided that he (and a number of his buddies) might as well stick his/their name on it. This includes routes that had multiple ascents, routes that he added bolts to that previously had none and in at least on case, adding a bolt to an existing bolted slab route and claiming the FA. What the routes are or what his motivation was is not important - I was simply pointing out that much of the "FA" info in his book is pure fantasy and that it is a shame that he included so much false info. As a guide book author, you have a responsibility to make your book as accurate as possible - I don't think he did that at all, and it certainly does not end at the FA info. The directions to find certain formations blows as do some of the topos. Some are so bad, it's almost like he included formations where he had never been. Strictly my opinion, yours may differ. That said, writing a guidebook is no easy task, and I applaud him for his effort while sticking by my criticism.

Bob D'Antonio wrote: Mike thanks for your honest answer and you really hit the nail on the head. I remember back in the early 80's one climber in the Springs proclaiming "no bolts on Splatte granite" and then proceed to bolt with his small group of buddies. If people understood the history and the somewhat hypocracy of certain locals in the SPlatte...maybe we wouldn't have these issues now. Mike...If Peter had no information on the FA's and most routes in the Splatte had no sign of previous passage...how was he wrong or dishonest??

I didn't say he was wrong or dishonest, I said it was a shame he included false info.

Peter did enough climbing in the Platte and talked to enough people who had climbed there for years to know that many routes down there had not been reported. In my opinion, the responsible and "right" thing to have done would have been to include only FA info that was verifiable. (ie. bolting a new slab climb or a crack like Wunsch's) Claiming to have done the FA of crack climbs in the mid 80's that were smack dab in the middle of very popular areas that had been climbed in since the mid 70's seems self serving at best.

just wondering why guide books are even considered now with websites like these, which are very informative. Heck, it is a bunch more info than we had in my younger years on most routes!!

You can't treat website information as permanent. If the site disappears, then that's it. So it's good to have printed books. And though mini-guides printed from this site are good, a compiled guide book with additional topos is even better. Once your color laser printer churns out the web pages, you might as well have bought a guide book.

A Buffalo Creek local once told me that Hubbel would walk along the base of rocks and name and grade routes without even climbing them. There is a lot of good info in Hubbels guide but it's not all accurate. The Castle is a prime example, my friend Pat asked me if I brought it up there for toilet paper.

Hi Bob,

Can you throw some beta my way for the routes you did on Rampart Range Rd?
I am often up at Devils Head and I'm interested in the area and I'm looking forward to getting back up there after spending so much time at The Wood this winter.

One can find criticisms in any guidebook, some more than others. I think that Peter's guides have lured me into many climbs that otherwise I never would have found.
My only qualm is that he misspelled my name as Tim, in Front Range Crags. Kinda funny really.