Uh, what's a tower?

Wayne, I would have to say that the Oracle is a tower also, that summit spire/spike thing is not small.

Hey TP, how long do you think the EEE will take now that it is established? would you really call it a grade 6?

Ben

Ben, no doubt, oracle is huge and since its historically been described as a tower that certainly carries some weight. OF course it all just depends on what the optimality criterion are for your defining hypothesis. Yes, the spikey part is quite large, is it larger/taller than the base part of the ridge from which it projects? does that mattter? I guess i just like to play around with ideas and definitions . . . btw, I do consider The Oracle a "tower" . . . I guess maybe I tend to think we all know a tower when we see/climb/jump one so it really is kind of just semantics (which I enjoy). But then there are those rare cases where we don't all agree, so . . . . Like I implied before, for most of us most of the time all that matters is what matters to us individually and for most of us most of the time there is a broad overlapping consensus there reagrdless.

Maybe I should start using the definition someone else did of considering all buttes and butresses towers?

Ben, is forming tower a tower? it climbs and jumps like a tower, but I tend to think it is a tpower in name only . . . what about the finger of fate? the minotaur?

paz y amor . . . .

The definition of a tower according to Eric B or George H is any formation that is taller than it is wide. Doesn't seem too compicated beyond that...unless one really seeks pedantics.
I guess El Cap is now a Grade II now that it can be climbed in a couple of hours if that is how you define the Grading system. I sure miss those Grade IIIs, IVs, Vs, and VIs. Just think, most of you guys will never get to do one.

John J. Glime wrote:Who cares about towers anywhere else!?

Maybe I live in an area where it might be much more and issue if something is a tower or not. I consider myself also a tower counter / tower collector. In Elbsandstein, climbing is only allowed at towers/summits, everything else is off limits, national park reserve. So if guys are discussing here if something is a tower, they discuss also if climbing or not.
Of course, there is an official list of what are the "official" towers/summits. And a definition:
-A summit is a rock which top can only be reached by climbing or jumping. At second, it must be at least 10m (30') high on the lowest side. Later an exception was added that also objects with only 6m (20') may count if the easiest ascent is at least a saxonian IV (grade 5.5).

The mentioned heights may be quite low applied to the Colorado plateau, however the rocks in Elbsandstein are generally smaller.
Up to now, there are around 1100 official summits, and around 200 guys which have succeeded in collecting them all.

Just another side remark, there are people out there which discuss definitions of alpine summit and make a full science out of this, see thehighrisepages.de/bergtou… thats worse than me.

Now my questions:
Is there a someway agreed upon list of all the real towers/summits in the area around Moab?
To what extend do they have summit registers?
Are there also high score list like which are the highest towers?
Which are the most difficult to get to the summit?

Montezumas?

Montezumas isn't on the Colorado Plateau, so it doesn't count. If it was on the Plateau I would consider it a tower.

There is no comprehensive list to Moab area towers - there are thousands of them, more are found every year, and information can be hard to come by for obscure towers. Some have registers, some don't. I've climbed towers out in the San Rafael Swell that have had registers with no names but the first ascentionist, and those entries were from 30 years ago.

The hardest to summit are probably some of the choss heaps crusher has been doing that require really specialized techniques. Check out the Sugar Daddy trip report on supertopo by "crunch". The mystery towers have to be in the running too.

So I understand, as aid bolting is an option, the difficulty of a summit is just reciprocal to its rock quality?
What may be the most difficult one if the mandatory free climbing part is the measure?
An are the formations at Bryce Canyon (is it allowed to call them rocks?) considered towers or not?

Bryce canyon towers are dirt hoodoos. I've never heard of anyone even attempting to climb there, and i'm not at all sure that it would be legal even if you wanted to.

Drilling bolt ladders is a last resort in blank rock. Not too many towers go completely without bolts, but some do and the pendulum has swung away from giant bolt ladder routes like the Colorado Ridge on the Kingfisher. In general, if there isn't a protectable feature the free climbing possibilities are really limited, so there is rarely any mandatory free harder than 5.11, and mandatory free harder than 5.9 is unusual. Fantasia on the Oracle and Brer Rabbit on Cottontail are both notorious for having runout 5.10 or 5.11 mantle moves on less than perfect rock. The hardest tower free routes almost all started as aid climbs.

i'm pretty sure this thing has been climbed, although not by me. every time i drive by it, i get the urge, but i am usually in a hurry to get somewhere.

Virgin Roadtrip

Rereading this thread is what I did at work today.

Just to add to the pot on what constitutes a "desert tower":

I had this exact discussion with Steve "Roadie" Seats when I shared a belay with him while climbing Honeymoon Chimney. As I remember, the topic came up because Steve was making fun of my virginal status, since the Priest was only my 3rd or 4th tower. Anyway, his criteria were:

(A) Located on the Colorado Plateau (Zion counts, Sedona doesn't)
(B) Made of sedimentary rock (Shiprock doesn't count, dirt hoodoos do)
(C) At least 30' tall on its shortest side (is the Cobra that tall?)
(D) Easiest route to the summit has to be at least 5.7 or aid (towers that you can swing/jump to don't count)

That's it. No criteria based on width/height ratio. In fact, he specifically mentioned the fact that the Rectory counts, but Parriot Mesa doesn't because it has an easy scramble to the top.

In other news, he also told a great story about breaking the drill bit on a new route in Arches NP (don't ask me how they managed that...) and finishing the hole with the handle of the toothbrush he had along for brushing holds!

• Disclaimer: This is just the product of my fallible memory: Any errors are my fault, and this doesn't necessarily accurately represent the opinions of Steve Seats*