Metolius Master Cams - Update

Aliens Suck. Only people who can't think for themselves and go along with the norm actually say they prefer Aliens. My rack is full of worthless Aliens, booted off climbs because they get stuck so much. Aliens are absolutely worthless in the desert as well; minimal range and seizure with the slightest amount of dirt. They look good in stores though and have a cool name. That is about as far as their worth goes.

Got any worthless aliens you're willing to toss my way? :)

Yea I would take those worthless Aliens also...

Healyje wrote:I just saw that the Master Cam range chart on MountainGear.com didn't match the MetoliusClimbing chart for their regular cams so I called metolius and asked about the range differences. They said the ranges are the same as their regular cams and that there must have been some errors developing whatever different tables folks are looking at. The Master Cam lobe profiles and axle locations are exactly the same as their regular cam lineup so the ranges have to be the same.

Metolius now has the specs of the Master Cams on its website. The ranges are the same as those posted by mgear.

brenta wrote: Metolius now has the specs of the Master Cams on its website. The ranges are the same as those posted by mgear.

Yeah, forgot to post up here, but I did call them and ask and they said the MGear and new specs on the site are the correct ones.

Did they tell you what led them to revise the specs of the other cams?

Frankly I've never much liked Metolius cams. TCU's are OK, but after I bought aliens, my TCU's quickly found a home in the closet of shame, only to come out as triples/quads for big wall trips.

I had a crusty old geezer force his rack on me up in squamish for a couple weeks, and I learned to really loathe both the cams, and especially the pompus attitude that came with them. Metolius itself really oozes pompusness themselves, so it is not confined to the users. If you read their product descriptions and manuals they just ooze with an air of superiority.

My biggest whipper was due to a purple TCU popping under body weight. It was hard to inspect due to the big ass lugs at the axle/stem interface (which always looks like they were welded with a car battery and a coat hanger, and the battery needed charging).

Aliens are now officially sketch, but so far they are the better design for yosemite pin scars and tricky clean aid.

I'll give these new "Master" cams (even the stupid name is pompus!) a shot, but I'd rather just see someone buy out aliens and get the process under control.

I put together a quick exel chart comparing the usable ranges of 2007 Metolius TCUs to 2008 Master Cams. The usable range is based on 10% to 60% of the total range. All data was taken from the Metolius website.

Look at the huge holes created by the new sizing. Does anyone know why Metolius did this?

brenta wrote:Did they tell you what led them to revise the specs of the other cams?

A couple of typos when the chart was transcribed onto the web.

Moof and I part company here. As I said, I have two sets of Alien Hybrids. Aliens will fit in a very limited number of placements other cams won't fit into. I only owned the hybrids for the unique capabilities they provided. Their regular Aliens - not a chance - weak in every way as far as I was and am concerned compared to almost any other make of cam. You couldn't give me their regular cams. From the perspective of manufacturing execution, burliness, cam angle, and cam surface the Metolius cams are stoutest cams made.

They look great and have a much better feel to them than aliens do. Not as floppy or funky. Cleaner. Had I the need its what I'd buy.

Healyje,

You are by far the single person most vocal in repeatedly projecting that Metolius cams are the best and only ones to have (and that basically, no other major cam on the market can really be trusted -- in your eyes).

I'm not saying that is wrong, but I have to ask because sometimes you come off appearing more as a salesman for Metolius (though it could certainly be genuine conviction).

Do you have or have you ever had any affiliation with Metolius (be it in the form of employment, business relationships, friendships with workers or executives, sponsorships, accepted free gear, or any other relationship)?

I do think Metolius makes one of the nice cams out there.

Thanks,
Avery

Healyje,

It's precisely the "... very limited number of placements other cams won't fit into." that is largely why I love them. Those sorts of placement abound in Yosemite walls. Somewhat beaten out pin scars eat aliens as A1 pieces, and often spit out my TCU's (that I try to burn first).

Alien manufacturing for sure is sketch, but the cam angle is fine. The design is fine. The manufacturing process appears to be run by rabid baboons. Like I said, I'll give them new Mustard Cams a whirl, but I am not going to go brown nosing the pompus Bend bozos till they actually ship, and I actually place them.

the chart above describes exactly what i was talking about on page1. as it is, there are some pretty bad 'gaps' in the tcu sizing. metolius would have been better off sizing the master cams to FILL these gaps, rather than REPEAT these gaps. if the chart above is, ideed, correct about the exremely limited range and lack of overlap of the master cams, then that would be pretty unattractive.

i probably won't buy a set as i already have 3 sets of aliens, a set of offset aliens, 3 sets of tcu's and 4 sets of the .3 and .4 camalot. gotta draw the line somewhere!

(i have actually been using the .3 and .4 camalots quite a bit lately and have really come to like them. not the best for pin scars or flares, but when the crack is deep, i think they are the best. same problems with gaps in sizing though. there is a pretty bad gap between the .3 and .4, which is filled nicely by the yellow tcu).

After creating the chart above I contacted Metolius regarding the resizing of their cams. Since the data I used for the Master Cams above is the same data currently listed for all Metolius cams except the Supercam (TCUs, Master Cams, Power Cams, and Fat Cams), I figured I better hear what Metolius had to say before I bought a bunch of last year's cams before the new sizing took effect. Here is the response from Metolius.

"Thanks for getting in touch. What I have learned after a little digging is that the change in the published cam range is entirely due to the CE certification process that our cams are now part of. One requirement of that certification is that the published range not go all the way out to the 90 degree fully open position of the cam but rather to a certain percentage less than that. I don't know what that percentage is and it is still probably outside of the actual usable range of the cam a bit. Previously we just published the full range of the cam from fully compressed to fully open just like all other cam manufacturers were probably doing. So all the cam sizes are the same as always and the only difference between the Master Cams and the TCUs is that for the smaller sizes of our new Master Cams the cam lobes are a bit narrower so that the overall head width is reduced. This does not change the range. Let me know if you have any further questions."

Just screwed around with the master cams at the show. They're nice, although the cams are much more difficult to retract when the stem is bent than aliens. Also, while the sizes up to yellow (yellow alien size) are alien-narrow, the sizes from orange (red alien) up are maybe 30-40% wider, as the cams lobes are much thicker. I think this reduces their desirability. It follows my usual rack though, as I compliment aliens with ultralight tcu's only up to a yellow, then it's all aliens up to orange alien for me.

The link below has some information about the cams and what else is going on at the outdoor retailers show in SLC.

Day one has some details on the master cams

rockclimbing.com/Articles/G…

Day two has details and pictures of DMM offsets

rockclimbing.com/Articles/G…

tytonic wrote:Here is the response from Metolius. "Thanks for getting in touch. What I have learned after a little digging is that the change in the published cam range is entirely due to the CE certification process that our cams are now part of. One requirement of that certification is that the published range not go all the way out to the 90 degree fully open position of the cam but rather to a certain percentage less than that."

Interesting. The only free description of the CE/UIAA standard for cams I'm familiar with is this.
It is admittedly incomplete, but it does not mention any requirement on the reported range. Maybe the standard has been revised.

Marc Horan wrote:"IMHO, Metolius makes the #3 cam, behind BD (#1) and CCH Alien (#2)"

I remember getting those Chouinard Catalogs saying that camming devices were a waste of time, and that Hexes could go anywhere a Friend could. Amazing how they've changed their tune - economics I guess.

You must've forgotton about Wild Country/DMM - a very under-stressed design and easily the best quality.

FYI:

We (NASA) have been looking at adding new safety anchors to exposed working positions on Deep Space Network antennas - we have some of these antennas in Spain, so they need to be CE approved. I contacted Black Diamond because I knew that their gear is CE approved, I wanted to see where they got their gear tested and certified. There is no certification available in the USA - BD get their gear tested in France.

aliens seem to beat them on expansion range pretty handily.