Don't crowd me at the crag...

Scott and Big Time,

You guys are such selfish brats. I bet you were the little mama's boys that got what ever you wanted as children by pissing and moaning and crying for it. I bet you also get angry when you don't send your proj dude, and have to blame your failure on something outside of yourselves.
I hope your experience at shelf road will make you never want to go back. and if you do i will seek idiots like you out and plop my rope on yours, just to watch you squirm and act like little grommets.

Big Time, I agree with you. Climbers should give each other space in a big place like Shelf. If those others wanted to climb the line you were on, they could have climbed nearby (but not too close), and then jumped on when you left. That's what my friends and I would do. Honestly.

As for all the sarcastic, negative coments. Fuck off. Especially the high and mighty, always right Ken Cangi. Get a life.

Ken Cangi wrote: As I said - a regurgitated troll. These guys are amateurs.

Who's the real troll, Ken?

Is this where I get banned from Mountain Project?

Bogardus wrote:Who's the real troll, Ken?

Your sign-up date is giving you away, but knock yourself out. I'm sticking with troll, but if by the slightest chance you actually are for real, you have just publicly advertised that you are upset because a some females wanted to climb next to you at a popular sport climbing area. If that truly bothers you, then you need to turn in your ropes and penises at the door. Your man privilages are officially revoked.

Scott Miller wrote:Now that all of you have had the chance to jump all over my climbing partner for posting something in a DISCUSSION FORUM

I'm sorry you and your partner are offended, but as you pointed out, this is a discussion forum and a discussion is what's taking place. As courtroom lawyers say, if you think you're going to get an answer you don't want to hear, don't ask the question. I can't imagine the OP was seriously expecting widespread agreement with his sentiments.

JL

Big Time wrote:It was a beautiful fall day at Shelf Road. My partner and I were working a climb at the upper limits of our abilities. The peace and tranquility of the location allowed us to focus on the task at hand. Times like these represent why I love the art of climbing rock. Then everything changed. Two women decided to get on the 5.10d directly to our left. Their small talk took away from the moment I was enjoying so thoroughly. Five minutes later another group got on the 5.11b to our right. Is it rude to climb next to another party? Shelf Road has hundreds of routes in the 5.10-5.11 range. These two sets of climbers could have easily found other routes to climb. Do they not realize how their actions affect other climbers? Am I unique in my desire to have space when I climb? There will inevitably be times when having space is not an option. This was not one of those times. I would like the climbing community to consider being more respectful of other climbers desire for space.

You sound like you pull down hard. I'd love it if you could post your climbing plans up here.. maybe I could meet you at the crag every weekend and climb next to you? I'd love to learn a thing or two. If you post your climbing plans up here, I'm sure all of the other MP.com users would avoid that particular crag that day.

Dude, that'd be sick!!

--Marc

I don't think that you should be as possessive as you are about land that isn't even yours. Everyone knows what it feels like to be disturbed and can relate. We have all had our buzz stomped. You must conclude that life is not fair. You had bad luck that day, maybe you deserve it. I wasn't there. Be thankfull that you were climbing. Most important nobody got hurt. You should have told those chicks that they were "out of line", and quoted the guide book to them, then come to the chat room and tell us what they said. That would be more funny and entertaining.

Ken Cangi wrote: As I said - a regurgitated troll. These guys are amateurs.

Yeah, and there's this other guy telling people they are blowing up the First Flatiron on Another Forum®.

Troll-o-rama.

Is it kinda rude to set up shop right next to someone when the crag is huge, sure... Not that big a deal though as it is acceptable and we all have equal rights to the crags. Would it have been polite to ask if the people there first minded, sure, necessary.. No. Someone could surely argue about it being rude to hog a route all day... it goes both ways

I also like some space, but don't necessarily mind crowds. It's fun to meet new people and watch others climb and listen to conversations and whatnot.

Gotta compromise to live in civil society.

Let someone blow off the steam for being irritated, I probably would have if I was at a huge crag working a route and both routes close to me became occupied... no big deal though. what is there to argue about here???

Now what is bad is disturbing a belayer or climber while in lead mode! Especially if it's a redpoint attempt!

Can't we all just get along? :) ... oh, ya that's right. we have to rip each other to shreds in word battles for the title of ultimate climber of superioritiness and supercalifragilisticexpialidociouseness! oh.. wait... I guess I just joined the band wagon with that comment... damn! I am best climber now!

First of all Mark Nelson about made me piss myself- lol

Second: I'm going to shelf this weekend and would like to know which routes attract the most babes. I'm looking forward to gettin um... crowded with some honeys on the umm... sharp end.

WORST THREAD EVER!

Ken Cangi wrote: As I said - a regurgitated troll. These guys are amateurs.

"Fuckin' amateurs dude"

Oh man, you've got to be kidding me.
How could anyone go to Shelf, The Sport Park, or The BRC for crying out loud, and expect to spend the day by themselves?
I thought that these areas exemplified the crowd experience.
Rock climbs are like my music collection. I listen to ten percent of my music ninety percent of the time.
Ninety percent of climbers inhabit ten percent of the crags.
Humankind are, by their very nature, like so many sheep.
Lemmings run to the sea!
I can understand the need for solitude if you live in the midwest, where so many climbers have such a limited supply of stone.
However, if you live in Colorado, eastern California, etc. there is so much untapped potential and undeveloped rock, just hike that extra mile. Believe me, the added muscle development in your quads will not become that detrimental to your climbing ability.
I am a Castlewood Canyon local. If I want to spend the day climbing away from the crowds, I know better than to hang out at The Grocery Store Wall.
Have you ever checked out the incredibly vast amount of unclimbed stone in The Lost Creek Wilderness Area?
No sporty climbs there, you say? Put some in. Climb trad. Do some run-out routes. No lines there.

Big Time, I agree with you. The dudes going off on you are the same inconsiderate butt heads that would plop their rope bag down on yours even if with 900 other routes they could go climb just down the trail. They just don't get it, they are so self absorbed they are incapable of comprehending how there actions might affect others. These are the same guys that would light up a cigarette in an elevator and wonder why everyone got offended.
I thank the gods I live in Southern Arizona were crowds and morons like those guys are few and far between. I also make it a point to hike a bit farther in order to stay away from the ghetto blaster idiots you find at so many sport crags.

i hate climbing around other people, so i sit in my room, in the dark, and browse these forums, and pretend i climb. none of my friends were ever complete strangers to me that i happened to start talking to while at the crag either (back when i used to go that is). hell if some ladies sit next to me anywhere i tend to run away, they are icky. i understand you big time! join me in my solitude (but at your own house, theres only room for one here)

oh! guideline #1: dont be a jerk...

failed at that one too, gonna lock myself in the closet now and pretend im in a giant chimney or something.

I remember when everyone was glad to see another climbing party. I still like it and enjoy meeting new people. I do get a little distracted at times by lots of jibber jabber if I am trying to get up something hard. I also would not appreciate someones disc player blasting away. I find this to be a rare occurrence. When that is the case I walk a little farther.

I am amazed at the responses you've gotten...3 pages in 19 hours...and most saying you way off the wall!

I agree with your frustration, though clearly at a popular crag it's more likely to happen (which is one reason I go way out of my way to avoid climbing popular spots at popular times).

I see people having different comfort levels with personal space. And respect for (or even awareness of) another's as different from their own can vary greatly. And also differences in what is a comfortable number of other people and "too many"...which can change also with "too close".

It reminds me of being at an isolated campground at the end of the season, being one of perhaps 2-3 other parties at opposite ends, and somebody sets up camp right next to you. Usually, people leave more space between occupied sites and you squeeze closer as the campground fills. To me, it's just plain intrusive, but for others, there's just more comfort in closeness, I guess.

I think it is a natural "etiquette" with climbing to similarly spread out, if the crag is less crowded. I also suspect this is less likely to happen with people from less populated areas (how do you think it'd play in rural Wyoming?)

I can't remember the specifics of the IC thread, but yeah, it was very similar.

John Langston wrote:I would agree that Ken Cangi is 100% asshat, that makes me want to defend you.

Sorry, John, but the asshats are the ones who actually believe that other climbers should abstain from climbing routes of their choice because these social misfits can't bare the thought of sharing the crag with them. And being that you chose to defend them, on any level, consider yourself a member of their asshat club.

Mark's posts on this thread get my vote for best of the year.

I went camping recently and decided I wanted as much solitude as I could get (because I am a loner and bad ass.) I tried to fall asleep but spent the night awake scared inside my tent listening to animal sounds all around me. The next day, in the light of day, I told myself to Cowboy up and try it again, but this time I parked my tent 50 feet from two other tents, screw solitude. I spent this second night inside my tent only half as afraid as the previous night, but only fell asleep when I finally put in my earplugs (animal noises again.)

Being alone is scary. We each have our needs of comfort and security.

Ken, you got me. I hate women and I should give up my manhood. Also, you are right, my sign-up date proves that I am not a real climber and/or a troll.

I still say it is rude to climb right next to someone you don't know (right off the bat), when there is plenty of room to go elsewhere.