Faith and climbing?

Just wondering what people think. Do non-believers or believers make better climbers?
I guess I'm wondering more about the sketchy stuff. Have the boldest climbers, rock, ice, alpine, soloist, typically been freaky religious types? I've met Peter Croft, Steve House, Derek Hersey and they seemed normal...but deep down are they praying and answering to God?
Just wondering because I want to get better at the R and X rated stuff and I was thinking of being "born again" if it's going to help me. I've always thought being self-reliant was the way to go, but I really want to climb better...

Oh, boy . . . I'm not touching this one with a 10' clip stick!

JL

Very interesting post. All the great climbers I've met (Steve House, Conrad Anker, Nick Sagar, to name a few) have all just seemed like extremely driven and focused people. None of them seemed like particularly religious people to me... at least not freaky religious types.

I too would like to get better at "R" climbs close to my limit but I'm not about to become a religious freak to achieve my goal. I think that self-reliance is the way to go. A recurring theme in my climbing crowd is "pushing out the bar." Pushing out the bar of what you think to be your limit, what scares the absolute sh!t out of you, the limits of your composure. Pushing out the bar takes a ton of hard work and it always seems that the biggest gains come with the most pain.

I was going to but thought better of it, especially having been born again years ago, and no longer believing now what I did then.

Yes, believers do make better climbers. People that believe in themselves that is.

It's funny b/c my view of religion is pretty godless (the closest thing to a "god" that I believe in is myself and this giant rock we live on hurling through space). The only churches I attend have steeples and spires of stone, dirt floors, and sometimes they even have anchors. So if you want to be a stronger climber go to church as often as possible. A good training regiment helps too.

Look what happened to Layton Kor....

Jesus was actually a pretty solid .12+ sport climber. Unfortunately for him, Barabbas was a well-known traddie.

Don't forget that Pontious Pilot was a boulderer as well.

Daniel Crescenzo
9 hours ago:
"Yes, believers do make better climbers. People that believe in themselves that is.

It's funny b/c my view of religion is pretty godless (the closest thing to a "god" that I believe in is myself and this giant rock we live on hurling through space). The only churches I attend have steeples and spires of stone, dirt floors, and sometimes they even have anchors. So if you want to be a stronger climber go to church as often as possible. A good training regiment helps too."

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most people i know who live true to their faith are simply the toughest folks i know. and not tough in a gay-ass manner that is so typically displayed in the climbing world. I mean serious grit. The scary kind.
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i am not of that category myself(never been to church), but i do know better than to judge people of faith. We could use a lot more people out there who are living lives based on principles. any principles.
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dont tase me bro!

Wow, not what I expected from the replies. Yesterday I was having a bad day and decided I'd try to stir up some s!#@, but you all have restored my "faith"...not. I am definitely not a believer and in no way intend to be born again. Thanks for your thoughts, climbers do rule.

i don't think they'd have you beagle

Cpt. E wrote: "i don't think they'd have you beagle"

I believe Ed Abbey said something like: "I wouldn't want to be a part of any group that would have someone like me as a member"

Cpt. E wrote: "...i do know better than to judge people of faith. We could use a lot more people out there who are living lives based on principles..."

I find it endlessly ironic that folks assiciate people of faith with people of principle. What sort of principles does the Evangelical Christian who runs our Executive Branch of government live by? Here are two:

-Might makes right

-Money talks

Trolling for Jesus are we?

Btw Judas was a gym rat.

I like this topic, it's more about balancing a person's faith with technical climbing & the possibility that death could be the end result. I'm not the most experienced climber, but I have handled myself on R/X routes as well as onsight soloing; so I've been through some of it both physically & mentally.

If you fall, would you then blame God as you would also give credit for your sudden ability to overcome an R/X route?

I wouldn't. I'm responsible for my own actions, though I do give my appreciation for some great climbs & my belief in others to help me. I have no problem balancing my faith with my outdoor experiences and without once pushing my belief on others.

One of my favorite commercialized slogans: "God forgives, mountains don't". You go out and try and use your faith as your crutch on technical terrain; I believe you will have your question answered for you.

There may be "no atheists in foxholes", but if you wanna climb better I think Voltaires philosphy is closer to the truth; "God favors the larger battalion."
The translation is that if you wanna climb better, get stronger.

MT- Nice try with the Buddhism crap. I can see you really grasp that s#@! Reality also has a practical side as I have found out for myself.

MM- And I really hope I'm strong enough to not be another "cardiac catholic".

Lastly, my original post was meant to do just what it is doing, thanks.

I'm reminded of another quote on worship which more directly applies. Skinner and I were seeking permission to climb in a Budhist monastary in the Ninh Binh Province of Vietnam. The monks thought watching us up there would be entertaining, so they said yes provided we clean off a carving that had been put in the wall in the 14th century.

WHile belaying me, I heard the translator ask Todd "The monks want to know if you are Christians?"
Without missing a beat, Todd replied "We worship the power in our right arms."

Fear is the most powerful God I have yet to encounter.

Sam, nice name dropping.

Monomaniac wrote:I believe Ed Abbey said something like: "I wouldn't want to be a part of any group that would have someone like me as a member"

Groucho Marx of the Marx Brothers said that. See here ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grouc…); scroll down 3/4 of the page and look under Witty Remarks (it's the 7th quotation down).

Beagle wrote:Sam, nice name dropping.

Name dropping? Are you refering to Voltaire or Skinner?
I'll try and relay any stoires without mentioning my climbing
partners by name.
Beagle, your clearly a shallow dipshit.