true onsight

hey guys. One of the things that I love about climbing is that it's not refereed, so we climb by our own standards and ethics and live with them. I want to get a general feeling from you guys about what an "onsight" is. I would say that I have onsighted a route if I climbed the route without any falls, on my first attempt, without seeing someone else or getting specific beta about moves beforehand. I generally consider guidbook ratings and basic route descriptions (if they don't give specific beta) to be allowable knowledge before attempting to onsight a route. What do you think?

That all sounds pretty much the accepted norm.
However, those of us who were climbing while you were in kindergarten (no disrespect intended) have devised an amendment to the onsight rule:

"If one returns to a route previously sent by said climber, but after significant years have passed,the second ascent shall be accorded onsight status provided that the following apply:

• The now older climber does not retain the same strength to weight ratio as once held in youth,
• The now older climber no longer possesses any functional memory of beta concerning the target route OR,
• What passes for beta of the route in the addled brain of the now older climber is so incorrect that it is actually a handicap,
• And as long as any and all witnesses consent that these or other mitigating factors pertaining to the now older climber (specifically, bribes such as Mota Y Cerviza) shall qualify for bestowal of re-onsight status. "

Mike Lane wrote:However, those of us who were climbing while you were in kindergarten (no disrespect intended) have devised an amendment to the onsight rule:

Otherwise known as the Alzheimer's Onsight. The "significant years" provision can be interpreted rather freely, I think!

JL

To add to the onsight forum, I feel the onsight is the true measure of your climbing level and ability. In these days of number games, pink points, and red points, I feel it is the onsight that measures a climbers stamina, technical ability, and experience. In my opinion, this is the litmus test of one's climbing ability. Too many climbers measure their ability on getting up a climb no matter how many tick marks, hangs, down climbs, and whippers they take. I am after the onisght and the style points!

yeah you guys have good points. The discussion came up with my friend because I would think that people who are trying to onsight routes would go looking for routes near their upper ability level. The only way to do that is to pick out a climb with a known grade, so if your hardest onsight is 5.10c, you could look for a .10d et. cet. Some would say that knowing the grade detracts from a true onsight. Again, it's a great sport because you do what feels right for you. I would say that a measure of true ability in climbing isn't necessarily what you can onsight, becuase that is a specific skill, but basically what you can get in two or three tries, on just about any type of rock. Just the way that I play the game though.

How bout getting a route fixed as an established FA; does the subsequent same party FFA count as onsight?

Also, I would think tick marks should take away an onsight.

The almighty: Onsight Free Solo, is it worth the risk?

Anyone wish they had flash-forwarded?

...or flashbacks.

Josh Janes wrote:...or flashbacks.

Sorry, what were we talking about again?

JL

uhhhh........what?

Oh yeah, onsights.

I personally am a project guy. That tends to keep you more in your "comfort zone". Preplaced clips, rehearsals, etc. Kind of embarrassing on a 5.8 sport route. Onsight ability is, IMO, of the highest order in our sport. The guy who brought me into climbing was of that mentality. He was ambivalent about guidebooks and ratings; trusting his visual analysis of the route over all else. He could climb pretty hard, so if he could see pro or bolts, up he went. Along with what Mark said about the free-solo onsight, add to that naked and shoeless and that is climbing purity. How close to that purity do you dare to get?

What I love is seeing a line and climbing it with absolutely no knowledge at all. Only had it happen a few times and its really a great feeling.

Mike Lane wrote: I personally am a project guy.

What's funny is that I cannot, for the life of me, redpoint at my onsite grade. If I fall, its over. I have terrible sequence memory, so my onsite grade has always been higher than my redpoint grade.