Sport Climbers are Wonderful People

WhooooHooooooo, we're slammin on Utah now! Yah, I read "Under the Banner of Heaven". About how those Mormons stole all the bouldering from the Gentiles in St. George by dressing up as indians...........crap, that's all I got, whatever........

How many Texans does it take to screw in a light bulb?

One, they hold the bulb up to the socket and wait for the world to revolve around them......

P.S.- my little sun dance worked huh? learned that in the 10th grade(springbreak) at Hueco Tanks. Like a charm.

Q- how many Coloradians does it take to ruin southern Utah?

A- not many

BTW- we pray daily for your salvation . you can still make it into the celestial kingdom, just not the temple

mobley wrote:Q- how many Coloradians does it take to ruin southern Utah? A- not many BTW- we pray daily for your salvation . you can still make it into the celestial kingdom, just not the temple

Whew, for a second there I thought you were talking about Coloradans.

I think the best shot at my state came from Glime some time ago; "Chalkarado" -- the rest of you all are just playing for second place. That'd be "ya'll" or "you'ins" depending on the type of southern inbreeding.

By the way, has anyone offered a good answer:
Why do sport climbers suck?

Sport climbers used to kick all the ass back when lycra was king. As soon as lycra faded and was replaced by that gas pumper look, sport climbers have sucked ever since.

What about those lycra dogs that fired off on Devil's Tower? Well, we saw them there this past summer -- they still had lycra on.

I guess the place is timeless or they didn't get the memo.

Mark, weren't you offering in previous thread to assist with climber relations at Castlewood? Isn't that a "sport climbing" area?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Sport climbing was a fad in the 80's that emerged as a kind of anti-establishment response to the limits of trad. Kind of like punk rock to the 70's stadium band era. It infused new life into a somewhat stagnant structure. It also greatly benefitted Rock and Ice and Climbing Magazine, who in turn marketed "it" to death. But by Alan Watts' definition it allowed an emphisis on movement rather than protection. You are all better climbers for it.

Before the vitriol with this thread grows out of hand, do any of you even know a pure "sport climber"? We have all been subjected to 10 years of demonization in every form of media of groups of people who may not align perfectly with your point of view by the F-ing Neo-cons. Don't bring it here.

Mike Lane wrote:Mark, weren't you offering in previous thread to assist with climber relations at Castlewood? Isn't that a "sport climbing" area? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Nooooo, there's trad there, I swear...

My question being more rhetorical, no-one has really offered an answer to the age-old status differentiation regarding styles of climbing. Though lycra does come about as close as anything I've heard.

Actually, sport CLIMBING is a lot of fun! I just feel really uneasy, like I've forgotten something very important, when I start up something with only quickdraws.

But like the title says, sport CLIMBERS suck.

Actually, I probably should contradict my rant from last night. I personally don't know anyone who does sport climbing exclusively. However, the last time I was at Rifle was probably 10 years ago. (Never cared for the place very much) Although a distant memory, I do recall being taken back by the hordes of skinny, pompous a**wipes stomping around, screaming at the rock, carrying around a generally horrible attitude. One kid, maybe 60% of my body mass, actually walked right into me on the road while in some kind of a snit (my old moniker ubermike had more to do with how I "handled" people as a nightclub doorman than my climbing skills, this kid was lucky I wasn't in a mood that day). I was truly awestruck at the idea that the place was filled with so many people who seemed to be so tortured.

I really did forget that episode, it was probably a contributing factor in my long hiatus. I'm also never anywhere near Boulder and can't afford gyms; so perhaps I'm just not exposed enough.

Also, why do sport climbers suck wasn't at all that (this threads author) Tom Hanson was trying to state. He's lamenting how we tend to isolate groups that are different from us. Tom is the proverbial "nicest guy on earth".

elitist climber attitudes suck.

Well, I'm real sorry about my parents not being able to screw around until the seventies, but I'm doing my best to make up for it.

Good point about the rack.

Bitching about the anchor? I think most of us are not bitching, we just want to make sure we are respecting the ethic of someone else's FA, or trying to set a competitive measure. What better way to find out info than discussing on an internet forum?

Bitching about a bad anchor? Are you stirring the pot here or what?? A bad anchor is just that. Bitching about a good anchor, now that's something else.

I'm actually looking to purchase some lycra tights if anyone has an old pair lying around. The more colorful the better....

Jay

p.s.-I'm serious

I completely agree with Bob. Just look at the people who have freed El Cap (Freerider notwithstanding): The Hubers, Caldwell, Hirayama, etc. All of these climbers have redpointed 14d sport climbs.

Sport climbing offers some useful tools for the trad climber. Sport climbing tends to increase lock off strength, making it easier for you to hang on and place gear. Plus, sport climbing gets you used to falling. I can't tell you how many self-described trad climbers are scared to fall, even on steep, well protected cracks.

I know that personally sport climbing has made me a better trad climber. As for Texans, I can't say I know of any...other that that infamous Connecticut transplant who is running our county into the ground.

If I just go out and start pounding & drilling away, how am I going to get good at something without being educated first about established methods & ethics?

So - what better way to get info than an internet forum; there's not a whole lot to read about this say in the AAC library, though I have been there many times to look at various areas.

I guess another would be mentoring, I have learned a ton of technique by following others around Ouray, Eldo, & Jackson. (Doh - and of course the Splat)

The level of trad climbing - we're doing the best we can to get this standard up. I think we are seeing more gym & bouldering activity along with a higher price tag to get into trad (not to mention further investment in leading ice); all of which favors keeping these solid kids in a different aspect of climbing.

Pathetic? - just needs improvement; we are going out in the international alpine arena and setting awesome free standards; though as we had discussed prior, the average is lower.

But I would like to add, there's alot of us willing to help. I haven't met a kid in the gym that thought their first impression of Eldo wasn't wild as hell.

One gym rat commented to me: "You don't seriously climb because you can walk around with a bunch of crap. You do it for the moves & experience."

I told him: "Yes, but the gear is there to balance your climbing technique to the natural features for protection. It's just frustration to get the balance going to where you lead trad like your gym climbing."

I only wish I could take another season off & climb my brains out again; life takes money.

Mark Nelson wrote: I only wish I could take another season off & climb my brains out again;

Hmmm....I've never done that but maybe I should some day. I've been overdosing myself with overtime, then I will do something meaningful, and fun. I may even get my lazy ass on some hard sport for a change, so I can be a better trad climber. I'm so tired of falling on trad. ; )
OWIE!

Damn Dream of Wild Turkeys... damn them, damn them all to hell!

Mark Nelson wrote:life takes money.

So true; without it you're screwed! I've learned that years ago. The ones that say money doesn't matter, are either kooky or have parents to bail them out of messes.

I like all types of climbing but will have to say that I like sport the least. It takes physical strength to climb hard sport routes. Hard trad routes require both physical and mental strength. There's nothing like running out a 5.10 offwidth in the Platte to f with your head. Ice can be similar to trad if you are leading. It's all about keeping a cool head. Jay is probably right about trad climbers being afraid to fall, that's probaly why it's so mental. Ok, maybe I should start sport climbing to practice falling.

Favorite Texas band is Butthole Surfers. Favorite Colorado band is Bright Channel.

Bob...give it up. 99% of sport climbers could not lead 5.11 OW, which is a level established what...30 years ago? I have dragged 5.14 climbers up 5.10+ cracks that they swore were the hardest they had ever climbed. It's all relative...anyways I don't see you cranking the hard trad...so what does that mean?

Sport climbing is a tool that many climbers have used to improve their skill. Just because you use the tool does not mean you become it. I have spent summers at Rifle and can wank my way up 5.13, but I do not consider myself a sport climber.

I am glad that most climbers find more enjoyment clipping bolts. I don't know why any trad climber in their right mind would bash sport climbing, we all have to start somewhere.

Sleep-deprived here, but isn't like Alex said, the best climber is the one having the most fun? Isn't it best to be able to boulder, deep-water solo, sport-climb, trad climb, big wall, aid, ice climb, climb mixed, climb in fruit boots, do big mountains, climb at altitude and still have a blast doing it all? Just match the specialty to the task at hand and keep on smiling. Peace.

Hey Bob (and other older, wiser, more experienced types),

I have a serious question for you. You sound like you've been around the block more than a few times in several different areas of climbing (bouldering, sport, trad, alpine, etc.). So here is my question: How are new/inexperienced or otherwise uninformed climbers suppose to learn about 'ethics'?

Here are some examples to which I can not find a consensus or answer in a book or other hard copy source:

When is it acceptable to climb a piece of ice in the early season? What is "in enough"?

When is it okay to pass another team, (or allow one to pass) on say, The Diamond? If we are to become better climbers, then we must learn to throw ourselves at things that are over our heads, right?

When is it acceptable to drytool something? There are routes on Long's that are Rock routes in the summer, but Ice/Mixed in the Winter. If I drytooled (not that I would/could) the Casual Route, I'd probably get my head chopped off. Gadd & Twight put up Schobinger's Crack though. Where is the line?

When is it okay to bolt a route? Next to a crack, surely not. How far apart is too far? How far is too close? What is considered an acceptable anchor/belay station, and what is not? I've seen some absolutely terrifying shit in the Fischer Towers that would not fly in say, Eldo. Should the anchor be replaced? Which brings up another question...

How do you determine what is appropriate for one area vs. another?
Sure some guidebooks allude to certain ethics, but rarely are they comprehensive in this department.

The specific answers I am NOT interested in (at this point). My point is, where should one go to find these answers?

-Local Community/Mentors? If so, who can be trusted? Who can not? How do you find these people? I've had some very good, and some very bad mentors. How was I suppose to know the difference until it was too late!!!???

-The Internet? Same here. Who can be trusted, who can not?

-Books? One would hope these would be objective and have a consesus.

Please help fill this gap. Thank You.
...and for the recorded, I suck equally hard in every department thus far, but I try - damnit!!