www.mountainproject.com/v/utah/saint_george/crawdad_canyon_v>>>

WTF Submitted By: Tyson Anderson on Jun 1, 2009

Did they send it!?
JK... It's not funny at all.

This whole "transition from gym to outside" thing is becoming a real issue!

Seriously, though -- that's horrible.

This was going on at Smith Rocks in the Cocaine Gulley and other areas of the park back in the 80's...

Suppose it's not as bad as drilled handholds (rifle, etc) which can't be patched as easily as a bolt hole.

Nobody owns the mother earth- we just pretend that it's ours to use and abuse..

Crawdad Canyon is a very cool and fun place. These glued holds are not the norm, at least from what I saw, just one isolated eye-sore. The canyon is private, so the owner can allow it...? For a road trip though, to SW Utah, this is a must stop. Solid basalt sport climbing- There are no crowds, shade, the climbs are labeled at the base w/ plaques and the trails awesome. A pool right by too, to cool off(part of the fee). A true climbing "sportspark" if you like that kind of thing. Check it out if in the St. George area.

Edit: Although not typical of climbing crag's as we know it, still a good spot. To each their own- Im not here to tell a land owner how to run their "for profit climbing park". My post isnt my opinion on the glued holds(which I disagree w/btw), as thats not my battle at this destination- just my .02 on a place I have been and enjoyed. Also, St. George has MANY a good crag to check out if in that area. Climb hard. Climb safe.

Apparently someone needs to have a "sit down" about climbing ethics... hope this idiot gumby doesn't get someone killed when they use their new bolt kit to develop a new sport route or retrobolt a trad anchor. Concerning. WTF.

pathetic. what self-respecting climber would even consider climbing that piece of crap?

i don't care if its 'allowed' or 'legal' or whatever its still FAIL.

I guess the question this poses to me is: should a site like Mountain Project support such an area (which goes against current-day rock-treatment ethics) by including it on the site?

I'm not saying yes or no, and I do recognize it is on private land.

However, I'm saying that by including climbs or areas that include things like bolting holds on natural climbs -- it may be suggesting 'we' (the climbing community) approve. And that, could be why things like this have started to appear in places like Provo Canyon.

Just raising the question.

my question is, why hasn't anyone snatched that bail biner? booty!

or actually, why would it be there in the first place. thats what i find hilarious.

I'm going to agree with Shane that even though the climbing experience is not the norm...it's still a lot of fun. I went up with a big group of people from Vegas over the weekend and had a blast. Even though there were a lot of climbers in the park (mostly our group) there were plenty of routes to go around. The canyon is situated so that one side is in the shade in the morning and the other side is shaded in the afternoon. It's a cool environment and a good place to get a lot of climbs done in a short period of time. I had some issues with some of the routes being bolted that should have been trad, but as a landowner I wouldn't want to have to worry about liability either. I didn't like the route labels glued to base of many climbs...but it seems like a lot of the newer routes don't have these. A decent guide book with drawn rock features so you could identify routes would sold this. The landowner could sell the book and make more money this way.

The one thing that absolutely dropped my jaw was this glued holds bit. I only saw it on one route and I got to see almost all of the canyon. Private or not it was a climber who did this, not the landowner. Until somebody can prove me wrong I'm blaming the Southern Utah Climbers Coalition who "oversees the routesetting of this area." I hope I speak for much of the climbing community when I say I would like to see the SUCC oversee the removal of these holds. It's an eyesore and it sends the wrong message to the many non-climbers that visit the park and even beginning climbers. If you're not good enough to do the route, move on and get better somewhere else. If you can't handle that, stay in the gym.

so why didnt you just remove the holds? and the hangers for that matter?

So lame. I dont care if its private or not, its lame. I agree that there should be some consideration about Mountain Project hosting space for a place with glued holds and glued plaques with route names on the cliff. Isnt that what guidebooks are for? Accessability to the masses and beginners I understand, but seems kind of a waste of space on Mtn Proj. if everything is already spelle dout for you at the cliffs, do you really need beta for a place like Crawdad Canyon? Education is a great idea, but private landowners often dont give a shit about the climbing community or our 'ethics' and my guess is that nothing would be done to remedy these situations, unless it is on public lands like like the Provo incident. Any members of the Southern Utah Climbers Coalition (SUCC) out there want to voice an opinion?

I've been projecting this thing for years now and I must say that it is much harder than it appears. Despite the obvious rest at the bucket to the left of the crack, the lip one encounters once transitioning to real rock just keeps spitting me off. Love it or hate it but you have to admire the expert setting skills of the first ascentionist. I would however recommending bringing a larger sized alan wrench in the event any of the holds are still spinning or you need alter there angle to send. Enjoy

i'd climb it and have a great time on it

Paying to sport climb? Why would someone set up a pay to climb park? Isnt the ice park in Uray supported on sponsers and donations? This just all seems so strange, I go climbing to get out into the out doors not to pay a park fee and climb plastic.

Just my .02

Looking through my 2000 or 2001 guide to the area, it appears that T. Goss, M. Nad, and J. Nad have over 99% of the FA's in Crawdad.

They'd probably be able to shed the most light on this blaspheme.

I don't tell my neighbors how to trim their bushes...
I don't tell land owners how to manage their crags.
And I sure don't want to go pay a use fee to go vandalize what is now thier property.
The best possible action is just to let the land owner know your thoughts if you ARE a paying customer or a potential one. If not, let it be. It's not public land and its not about you.
MP.com is a database. I am not sure that the site is 'endorsing' or supporting anything here- just containing info (really, pretty scathing) about the area.

Are you not a fan of Sean Connery?

Well, it's a good thing I saw The Untouchables before I saw that picture. Please tell me it's not from one of the Bond movies.

www.imdb.com/title/tt0070948/

"Beyond 1984, Beyond 2001, Beyond Love, Beyond Death"