Type: Boulder, 10 ft
FA: Richard Smith, 1967 (but surely not the V8 version? Chip?)
Page Views: 3,092 total · 16/month
Shared By: Adam Brink on Jan 7, 2003
Admins: Leo Paik, John McNamee, Frances Fierst, Monty, Monomaniac

You & This Route

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This is one of Flagstaff's best problems and requires a maximum of body tension. For the V8, start on the slick as snot right hand sidepull and either a pinch or mono for the left. Pop up with the left to the glued side pull and continue making hard moves to the slopey topout. You have to want this one bad to send it.

For the easier start (maybe V6?), start from a cheat stone with the right hand on the slick sidepull and the left in the glued, high, opposing sidepull. Make the same moves to the top.


Bring a pad because one can pop off with explosive force from a number of moves.


- No Photos -
Chip Phillips
Broomfield, CO
Chip Phillips   Broomfield, CO
Good contribution, Adam.

FYI: the FA was done by Richard Smith in 1967 from the higher start, as he was like 6'5" and the ground has eroded away substantially. Note that the left handhold which has some glue behind it now used to be much better. Mar 13, 2003
Colin Lantz
Nederland, CO
Colin Lantz   Nederland, CO
Actually, this is miscataloged - Smith Overhang is a problem, not a separate rock. Smith Overhang is found on the Pratt's Overhang block. BTW - P.B. & B.H. refer to this as Smith's Overhang while P.A. calls it Smith Overhang. I have always heard it referred to as Smith Overhang. It used to be that you always saw a cheater block under this problem for the start. The 2000 B.H B.O.B.B called this V5, surely describing the then standard cheater stone start. It seems that in the last few years that the harder off the ground variant has become widely accepted as the 'true" Smith Overhang. It's V8 and maybe V9 when starting from the ground, i.e. start low before the glued sidepull. Apr 3, 2004
Chip Phillips
Broomfield, CO
Chip Phillips   Broomfield, CO
FWIW, the sit start to the Smith Overhang based on everything I've heard has not been done.

Looking for a double digit FA??? ... go get it! Apr 5, 2004
Peter Beal
Boulder Colorado
Peter Beal   Boulder Colorado
I did Smith Overhang this morning before work and started to put together a sequence that might work for the sit-start. If you start from the jug low and go right to the "big" sidepull, out left there is a terrible crimp for the left hand that might allow a right hand on the bad sidepull. Finish from there as for Smith Overhang. I would estimate V12 to V13.

If you're really tall, you might be able to get the glued sidepull undercling but letting go could be tough. Probably easier than holding the crimp though. May 5, 2008
Chip Phillips
Broomfield, CO
Chip Phillips   Broomfield, CO
Admins ... let's try this again:

FA: Richard Smith, 1967 Jan 11, 2010
Chip Phillips
Broomfield, CO
Chip Phillips   Broomfield, CO
Quote: "FA: Richard Smith, 1967 (but surely not the V8 version? Chip?)"

You are technically correct. The V8 version was not done until the ground eroded. To date, the ground has eroded about 2 feet. IMHO, Richard Smith should still be given credit for the FA on this, but that's just me. Jan 11, 2010
I have recently done what I thought was Smith Overhang, but it turns out that this variation is not in any guid book or MP. It turned out to be a good problem, and it follows a cool line. I believe you start out as the sit start for Smith Overhang on a left hand crimp with a good thumb catch and a large low right undercling. From here, go right to the first low sidepull, then bump to the higher better one, come into the glued undercling, and then go right to the sloping pinch on the arete. From here, get high feet and gain the broken crystal to the top out. Not nearly as hard as Smith Overhang, maybe V5/6, but what I thought were cool moves. Just wondering if anyone else has done this line and perhaps it should be added to MP? Nov 24, 2013
Wesley Fowler
Boulder, CO
Wesley Fowler   Boulder, CO
I'm having trouble understanding the drastic differences in opinion on the grade of this thing.... I did both today, the stand is a soft V7 at the hardest, and I'd call the sit V8. Can someone explain to me why anyone would call the stand V9? I'm comparing these problems with other grades in the area like those on the Capstan Boulder, the V7 there is certainly harder than this problem. Feb 28, 2014
I generally don't throw out height excuses for anything, but the sit-start to this problem is an exception. If you are tall enough (i.e. >6 feet) to go jug-to-jug up the thing without ever moving your feet, it is probably closer to V9 (and a good one at that). The problem gets increasingly harder the shorter you are as you have to make the crux move off of poorer and poorer holds. For me at 5' 10", using the 2nd-worst hold, it's more like V10+. For someone like Peter Beal who is shorter, it's probably more like V12-13, because he has to use the worst hold on the wall.

I will be posting this description up as a separate problem, since the sit really should get done more, regardless of the version you do. Mar 1, 2014
Peter Beal
Boulder Colorado
Peter Beal   Boulder Colorado
Hi Wes,
I have done both problems numerous times, and I would guess for your height this would not be a difficult problem. Soft 7 is quite a stretch for the downgrade, and 8 for the sit clearly points to a reach advantage. To even things out, try off-routing the big holds on the right, and let me know what you think :)

UPDATE: A video of the normal V8 start:

vimeo.com/151096855 Mar 4, 2014