GoFundMe for ice screw test program

Chances are, if you're concerned or just curious about how strong real world* ice screw placements are, you've seen Ryan Jenks' (HowNot2 video series) testing of ice screws in Iceland. And/or Will Gadd's conversation with the BD engineer. These are two recent pieces of the ice screw story, and they complement older testing e.g. Marc Beverly's Ouray drop tests, that demonstrated that screws CAN BE adequate to fall on.

* The industry certification tests for screws are conducted with the screws in a type of concrete rather than ice.

But the work to date hasn't caught up with the current trend toward shorter screws. 13 cm screws have become, for many climbers, the meat of their rack. 10 cm screws, once a rarity, are showing up more regularly on climbers' racks. Blame the shorter, milder winter season if you like. More significantly, there are now super-stubby screws available form a number of sources including CAMP and Blue Ice. These screws are not UIAA certified, and AFAIK neither company has published strength figures for their 7 cm screws. There is a need to find out how good these wicked things are.

I'm going to set up a GoFundMe account to pay for a test program on screws, specifically in the 7 cm range. Maybe a bit shorter or a bit longer. And likely when placed in pairs, as many climbers do. I have identified a university with a 250kN test machine inside an environmental chamber (AKA walk-in freezer). Preliminary testing outside the freezer was very encouraging (video link below). I'll post a link to the GFM once it's set up.  As they say on Shark Tank, "Who wants to take this ride with me?"

link to test of 7 cm screw

It's fun to see an energetic failure of the media and see the screw come out looking unscathed. I'm curious to see how you'll control for variabilities in ice consistency and temperature. It seems to me like you'd have to gather a tremendous amount of data to be able to come to any significant conclusions. In natural waterfall ice there's variabilities in the temperature at which the ice was formed, how long it took to grow, sun exposure, air content, temperature gradient through the ice at the time of climbing (i.e. air and underlying rock temps) etc. All of these would affect the strength.

It seems to me like fun testing, but I think everyone should understand they're putting their lives in their hands when they place stubby screws in thin ice (assuming you'd only use stubbies if the ice was thin) . I would be concerned that any test results that show high strength numbers would give climbers a false sense of security. If you're placing stubbies then the ice is probably far from "lab conditions" ice. Certainly much thinner than the ice in your video above.

That being said, I know you personally make some of these stubby screws, and I think that's really awesome. I would certainly love to buy some from you if the need arises one day.

I would kick in 20 bucks. 

Update - the walk in freezer isn't currently available for this, so we're on hold. Or the work will have to be conducted at room temperature. 

Gunkiemikewrote:

Update - the walk in freezer isn't currently available for this, so we're on hold. Or the work will have to be conducted at room temperature. 

That’ll skew the data.  Room temp ice (a.k.a “water”) doesn’t hold screws all that well.

Seriously though, do the fund me, get an armful of screws and ropes and do real drop tests this coming winter with all variables as close to real world as possible (sand filled dummy in harness, knots, belay devices etc.)  don’t bother with slow pull tests   

 I’ll fly out and help.  Or better yet, you fly here.   Have an ice park that you can do the drops out of the back of a pick up truck, easy peasy.   Done it before (that’s why I trust those skimpy lil things you make) 

I’ll toss in screws, belay devices, old ropes, biners, screamers, the haul system, 200lb dummy, etc.  could collect a lot of data ranging from old gear to brand new state of the art.  

I would pitch in some money for drop tests on 7cm ice screws in real waterfall ice (e.g., the the test method used for Marc Beverly drop tests at Ouray).  

I am not that interested in slow-strain rate pull tests in lab ice.  I think they are useful for manufacturers testing their products uring research and development, where they are evaluating relative (rather than absolute) performance.  These slow-strain rate tests are not so useful for climbers wanting to understand how their ice screws will perform in real world (high-strain rate) lead falls.  The fracture toughness of ice is highly strain rate dependent and somewhat temperature dependent (source).

Get How Not 2 in on it!! Would be an awesome series.

I think this is a wonderful idea and I am really impressed with your initiative to take this on. I would certainly pitch in some money. Do you know when you might put up a gofundme link? I presume you'll have to wait to see when the freezer becomes available before launching the link?

At the risk of being accused of overthinking it, I don't think I would be too comfortable sending money over without seeing some sort of budget forecasting - a link to a google sheets or something that shows all your anticipated costs (e.g. how many screws you plan to buy for the tests, hourly rental rates for the testing room and testing equipment, etc.). It's just helpful to know how much you need and where exactly the money is going. 

With a good plan in place, I could be generous enough