Stash pad ethics

I know stashing pads can be a contentious ethical issue in different places. What are peoples thoughts on using other peoples stashed pads. In a perfect world I would feel better using them if I could ask the owner first, but I rarely know who's pads they are. Always feels a bit weird, especially if they are under a boulder I showed up to climb and I would have to move them anyway to get on the the thing. Thoughts?

Reminds me of squatters, justifying moving into someone's home without permission.

It's not your pad - don't use it.

mike rachmanwrote:

I know stashing pads can be a contentious ethical issue in different places. What are peoples thoughts on using other peoples stashed pads. In a perfect world I would feel better using them if I could ask the owner first, but I rarely know who's pads they are. Always feels a bit weird, especially if they are under a boulder I showed up to climb and I would have to move them anyway to get on the the thing. Thoughts?

Technically they are abandoned so they are booty. 

It's ironic that two such witless responses are simultaneously mutually contradictory.

Frank says "it's not yours, don't touch it" while Nick says "it's not yours, so take it for yourself"

Each is such a famous boulderer that it's really hard to know who's advice to take

/s

Mark E Dixonwrote:

It's ironic that two such witless responses are simultaneously mutually contradictory.

Frank says "it's not yours, don't touch it" while Nick says "it's not yours, so take it for yourself"

Each is such a famous boulderer that it's really hard to know who's advice to take

/s

And you don't take a position. Equally as witless. Or is that "gutless"? (way to start the flame war, Mark)

Not unlike jugging someone's fixed lines

I would say feel free to use it/them for THAT boulder but don't feel like you can move it around to other boulders same as if someones draws are on a route.

While I'm against stashed pads in general (it's just trash at that point), if you leave your pad out of eyesight, you can't expect to control who's using it and how.

FrankPSwrote:

And you don't take a position. Equally as witless. Or is that "gutless"? (way to start the flame war, Mark)

Thanks for asking Frank!

I'll try to flesh out my opinion, since I'll be limited to 3 posts on the thread.

Yes, use the pads.

I'd even go further than some, and say you can move the pads to other problems, as long as you relinquish them if the owners appear.

(I will be curious to hear what other boulderers think, don't really respect the opinion of trad climbers on this topic)

At the end of your session, the question of whether stashing is allowed in that area is a complication.

If NOT allowed, then imho, you should carry the pads out and make an effort to return them to their owner. 

And a PSA- If not allowed, try not to get caught by the authorities while using them, because you'll take the fall, literally and figuratively.

If allowed, then carefully leave them exactly as they were.

Here are some hypotheticals-

You come across a group with pads below a problem. If you ask "can I climb on this and fall on your pads" what are the odds they will say "no, use your own"? Zero chance

You meet the same group, you want to try a nearby problem, but don't have enough pads. They have extra. You ask "may I use one of your pads" what are the odds they say "no"? Zero chance

You arrive at a problem, it's padded out but the group has gone off somewhere, but clearly intends to return. If you get on the problem, on their return would you expect them to say "hey, get off our pads" ? Zero chance. Although if they then want to move the pads, obviously you'd immediately replace their pads with your own.

A twist on that last hypo- you actually want to do a nearby problem, not the one padded out- in that case, moving theirs is a little pushy. Imo OK probably, but you'll need to be pretty diplomatic when they return. And replace the pads exactly as they were if you leave before they return.

So the idea that pad stashers will be upset if you use their pads just seems so far outside the vibe of bouldering as to be totally laughable.

Take a dump on the fixed pads, start a new legend.

*makes some popcorn*
Go on….Daddy likes a new gong show topic.

John Clarkwrote:

*makes some popcorn*
Go on….Daddy likes a new gong show topic.

Glad I was able to kick over the anthill before being throttled by MP :-)

Fortunately I’m in the basement hangboarding so the extra rage will be helpful

Mark E Dixonwrote:

So the idea that pad stashers will be upset if you use their pads just seems so far outside the vibe of bouldering as to be totally laughable.

has Frank ever given you a bouldery vibe?

PWZwrote:

has Frank ever given you a bouldery vibe?

Thank you for the attention!  (my 3rd post). I appreciate your intense focus on me.

Natalie Blackburnwrote:

While I'm against stashed pads in general (it's just trash at that point), if you leave your pad out of eyesight, you can't expect to control who's using it and how.

This seems to be the most complete answer for the question, imho. "Leave no trace" means trash, glass, equipment, etc. If you choose to ignore that and stash a pad anyway, ESPECIALLY on public land, it's pretty absurd to think that you still will have a right to delineate whether or not folks use it. The argument of "don't touch people's things" is an admirable ethical standard to strive for, sure, but when private property is left on public land, it gets a little harder to be black and white (for example, pulling a cam left on a route). My two cents is to just 1) take your stuff home when you're done climbing, and 2) if you don't, be prepared to face the consequences. 

Jack Nemitzwrote:

This seems to be the most complete answer for the question, imho. "Leave no trace" means trash, glass, equipment, etc. If you choose to ignore that and stash a pad anyway, ESPECIALLY on public land, it's pretty absurd to think that you still will have a right to delineate whether or not folks use it. The argument of "don't touch people's things" is an admirable ethical standard to strive for, sure, but when private property is left on public land, it gets a little harder to be black and white (for example, pulling a cam left on a route). My two cents is to just 1) take your stuff home when you're done climbing, and 2) if you don't, be prepared to face the consequences. 

Guessing you don’t use chalk or sticky rubber climbing shoes then.

Stash pads make more remote bouldering areas possible.  If it’s close to your car, that’s just lazy.

Keep them out of eyesight (or, difficult to find if possible). Spray them with non toxic critter repellent on a monthly basis. Tarp and protect them as best you can. 

If you’re not using them on a frequent basis, take them home.

C Gwrote:

Stash pads make more remote bouldering areas possible.  If it’s close to your car, that’s just lazy.

Keep them out of eyesight (or, difficult to find if possible). Spray them with non toxic critter repellent on a monthly basis. Tarp and protect them as best you can. 

If you’re not using them on a frequent basis, take them home.

“Remote bouldering areas possible” Lol. Ever hiked in a full rack?

Tradibanwrote:

“Remote bouldering areas possible” Lol. Ever hiked in a full rack?

Ever hiked with 6 pads, rope, harness, ascending gear, etc???

C Gwrote:

Ever hiked with 6 pads, rope, harness, ascending gear, etc???

Yes.

Big loads get humped all the time in and out, why should boulderers be exempt?

Tradibanwrote:

Yes.

Big loads get humped all the time in and out, why should boulderers be excempt?

Tradi, i think they have us on this one. I’ll take a mega rack and camping gear to the hulk before I’d hike 3 pads and a bag of shoes somewhere again. The weight distribution of pads makes things much much worse