Cheater stick for aid

I read about this being used in an older account of an El Cap ascent. Is this common practice, a stick clip for aid placements? 

It's fairly common but is also considered somewhat shameful by many. Tom Evans has his "stick clip of the day" in his El Cap Report as a joking way to tease people caught stick clipping. 

I have seen big wall climbers who talk about how using a stick clip is only cheating yourself take stick clips up walls though. Many will bring one in their bag and try not to use but have it on hand in case. Some will compromise and bring some segments of tent pole which collapse smaller but are not quite as effective in practice. 

The Kailas stick clip is quite compact and stashes well in a haul bag... But that last extension segment is bright red and signals to everyone what you're doing. Makes you feel like everyone in the valley is watching your moment of shame. You know, not that I'm speaking from experience here or anything... *Cough* 

I didn’t realize aid climbers could experience shame. How about taking it to the next level and developing a stick clip to use with cams. 

Well, I’m sure that we can all agree that there is something we could do that would tip the scale to shameful… 

Hiring guides to fix ropes up every pitch of El Cap so your son can claim an “ascent” might be all the way to one side of the Shame meter- where using a “Stiffy” or “Denny Arm” to account for your short height on a bolt ladder established by Layton Kor might not even register on the other side.. 

some routes call for a “Tequila Straw” or Whatever the fuck “Power Pooper” Jim Beyer has rigged up… 

Stick clipping past a missing Head or Pin to keep an ascent clean? Honorable?  Or just delaying the inevitable need to hammer in a replacement piece?

I watched a team stick clip up the free bolts on Lurking Fear instead of hooking p1 or aiding C2+ on  the window pane pitch. Shameful? Or just Lame-ful?

Stick clipping entirely past an Aid crux on a route and claiming the ascent? Does it really feel like a true ascent? But- at the same time who the Fuck cares? I mean- you do you.. we all have to decide what we’re ok with..  we’re all ultimately doing this stuff for ourselves- and the Gram

watching guys clip past easy aid with a 12’ stick just looked stupid and sad to me.. watching them bail seemed as inevitable as the sunset later that day

My friend made one with an alpine draw, coat hanger wound with the sling, and several wraps of tape around it to keep it stiff and together. It worked really well. The top gate was held open with rubber band, then tape when that broke. I'm glad we brought it because I was having a bad time. 

Greg Rwrote:

I didn’t realize aid climbers could experience shame. How about taking it to the next level and developing a stick clip to use with cams. 

with a small amount of creativity you can use a superclip to place cams that have thumb loops.

Kevin DeWeese wrote:

Or just attach an ice axe to your stick clip, hook away to your heart's content, and be done with the whole stick clip a cam thing

Link

Lol of course it's Beyer. What does A5c translate to from Beyer grades? Is that just below his famous A5+ grade? 

slimwrote:

with a small amount of creativity you can use a superclip to place cams that have thumb loops.

I’m kinda curious how this would work. I can see how the super clip would hold the thumb loop. Obviously the creativity comes in activating the trigger, any hints.
In creating this tool, what would the design parameters be for a “cam” stick with the goal of inflicting maximum shame on the user? 

Greg Rwrote:

I’m kinda curious how this would work. I can see how the super clip would hold the thumb loop. Obviously the creativity comes in activating the trigger, any hints.
In creating this tool, what would the design parameters be for a “cam” stick with the goal of inflicting maximum shame on the user? 

use a small piece of cord to clove hitch the trigger closed. need to backfeed a small loop in the clove hitch for a pull cord to unite the clove hitch. takes a bit of practice but works pretty well.

When the trickery to skip the move is more technical and complicated than doing the move… 

Unlike a stick clip to clip the first bolt of a sport route designed for it, using a cheater stick for aid is a.... cheater. That being said if it's to keep your ascent clean, or avoid buying a piece of gear for a single use, or you don't want to bring a hammer and pins, then you weigh if it's worth it or not, and just be honest with yourself and others about the ascent. 

where does lassoing a horn, or throwing a hex up into a crack fit into this whole cheating spectrum? to me, since aid is basically cheating anyway, i really enjoy these types of things.  i was aid soloing a tower a while back and was able to get through a very blank section by leaning way out to the side of my aiders and using a 15' stick clip to place a blue alien.  i had a jolly time.

Whilst bailing on an overhanging pitch a stick can help snag fixed gear!

Is Bailing Cheating? 

Haha great topic - and for sure there are exceptions to every rule, even the 'thou shalt try not to cheat stick' lol. Def no wrong way to have fun on a cliff! Personally I find that a cheat stick that is more than a 'reach extender,' like a super long rivet hanger (obscure but some folks make ones that have two clip in points for shorter folks, so you can reach it and then clip into a second higher loop on the same hanger so as not to be hosed by being so low on the rivet you couldn't possibly reach the next one) or a long quickdraw made rigid by taping a stick to it, just don't work. The pole-style sticks just end up wasting so much time and folks never seem to know when or when not to use them. A reach-extender stick is just common sense if you're under 5' 9". I think Pete Zabroc is a touch shorter than that and he has a picture of himself next to Steve Gerberding, who put up many routes and influenced many, many first ascentionists to place rivets as far apart as possible, and Pete's reach is like 14 - 16 inches less than Steve's. I tried the 'leave the stick in the bag' theory when I was beginning wall climbing, lol, and it worked about as well as when I tried quitting smoking in the past but just kept a pack around 'just in case'.  Thankfully eventually quit both but I"m 6' so no excuse.

So if aid climbing is reaching the top via problem solving,  and I bring modern equipment (ie - a cheater stick).  Can I downgrade a route?

  We all know that each decade new and better equipment are added to racks making pitches go easier and faster (cams before cams,  beaks instead of RURPs…).  When is it acceptable for cheater sticks and draws to be just a part of the equipment?

Makes sense thanks for the explanation

Kevin DeWeese wrote:

When the FAist uses it

Ah yes, the “Beyer rule”.

https://www.mountainproject.com/v/114450000

Kevin DeWeese wrote:

When the FAist uses it

Tequila Straw 

Greg Rwrote:

I didn’t realize aid climbers could experience shame. How about taking it to the next level and developing a stick clip to use with cams. 

https://www.karabinclimbingmuseum.com/leeper-friend-of-a-friend.html

They're not  made anymore but I have one I'd be happy to part with for the right price...

Kevin DeWeese wrote:

Examples beyond Beyer are: 

New goal: get my name on the list.