Our runaway bolting problem

    We have an issue with rap bolting that needs to be talked about. The notion that you can make a well protected line into a sport route. Or bolt a preexisting line into a sport route with complete disregard. Is a sign of laziness that is changing this sport into a climbing gym. Convenience is the game not commitment nowadays. The commitment factor is overshadowed by the new great measurement of experience, the grade. Not to say that's new, but it's become a steam roller.

    I have thoroughly enjoyed climbing sport routes since I started leading. Some of my funnest days were sport climbing. I have enjoyed routes that were retrobolted and I am not saying all retrobolted routes should be removed. There's a lot of routes that if they weren't bolted I wouldn't have done. There's routes I think should be chopped but that if they were, I wouldn't do. 

    There in lies one of the issues, safety. If a route isn't "safe" then a lot of people want to change it. Ask yourself this, is it the route that's unsafe or your ego before you get on it? Climbing is loosing one of its main elements, risk assessment. If it feels sketchy walk away. Be aware as your moving into what maybe a trap for you. If so simply back off. 

    Much has been said in regards to the Woodcock situation. Let me say first off that the purchase was a win and those who made it happen deserve a pat on the back. It's a beautiful place and we're lucky to have it. That doesn't excuse just doing whatever you want with it. More than a handful of obvious gear lines even to a novice leader were bolted with complete disregard. As nice as the area is I'm afraid I'll pass on climbing there as a result that it literally makes me sick. 

    The people who started and ran the organization that bought that land did not start it for this. When something we care about gets tarnished tempers flair, friendships get ruined. It's happened again and again. There's plenty of people who've taken it too far. I'd rather quit climbing than fail myself to hate. But it needs to be understood, there's a reason this issue starts fires in us. When you tell someone to "buy their own crag" or call them "gatekeepers" ask yourself this. Where were you ten, twenty, thirty years ago? When the very foundation on which we stand was built. 

    Don't expect respect if you can't show respect.

Very original thoughts here. I think you might be onto something that hasn’t been discussed on MP forums before

Danny Birchmanwrote:

    We have an issue with rap bolting that needs to be talked about. The notion that you can make a well protected line into a sport route. Or bolt a preexisting line into a sport route with complete disregard. Is a sign of laziness that is changing this sport into a climbing gym. Convenience is the game not commitment nowadays. The commitment factor is overshadowed by the new great measurement of experience, the grade. Not to say that's new, but it's become a steam roller.

    I have thoroughly enjoyed climbing sport routes since I started leading. Some of my funnest days were sport climbing. I have enjoyed routes that were retrobolted and I am not saying all retrobolted routes should be removed. There's a lot of routes that if they weren't bolted I wouldn't have done. There's routes I think should be chopped but that if they were, I wouldn't do. 

    There in lies one of the issues, safety. If a route isn't "safe" then a lot of people want to change it. Ask yourself this, is it the route that's unsafe or your ego before you get on it? Climbing is loosing one of its main elements, risk assessment. If it feels sketchy walk away. Be aware as your moving into what maybe a trap for you. If so simply back off. 

    Much has been said in regards to the Woodcock situation. Let me say first off that the purchase was a win and those who made it happen deserve a pat on the back. It's a beautiful place and we're lucky to have it. That doesn't excuse just doing whatever you want with it. More than a handful of obvious gear lines even to a novice leader were bolted with complete disregard. As nice as the area is I'm afraid I'll pass on climbing there as a result that it literally makes me sick. 

    The people who started and ran the organization that bought that land did not start it for this. When something we care about gets tarnished tempers flair, friendships get ruined. It's happened again and again. There's plenty of people who've taken it too far. I'd rather quit climbing than fail myself to hate. But it needs to be understood, there's a reason this issue starts fires in us. When you tell someone to "buy their own crag" or call them "gatekeepers" ask yourself this. Where were you ten, twenty, thirty years ago? When the very foundation on which we stand was built. 

    Don't expect respect if you can't show respect.

Not a new sentiment here on MP, but I respect your speaking out.

Not much more could be said about sport climbers on these forums, but I would like to add that I am deeply appreciative of having started climbing in an area without bolts, my climbing was forever enhanced and it saddens me to see the majority of our sport bringing the rock down to their level.

Tradibanwrote:

Not a new sentiment here on MP, but I respect your speaking out.

Not much more could be said about sport climbers on these forums, but I would like to add that I am deeply appreciative of having started climbing in an area without bolts, my climbing was forever enhanced and it saddens me to see the majority of our sport bringing the rock down to their level.

   Since it's not really a thing to just start this sort of dialogue out in a gym or crag. It seems like the point of a forum is a productive place to air grievances. Instead of say giving into resentment which I'm not above. But at least I try or am willing to reach out instead of dig into a hill of cynicism and resentment. 

   I mean I know many offenders this calls out. I really don't want to get nasty with people I otherwise consider friends. Seems better than going on a chopping crusade. 

If you’ve got the stones do it on gear anyway a la proper soul. Otherwise shut up and go climbing where you want to go climbing 

Josh Lipkowrote:

Very original thoughts here. I think you might be onto something that hasn’t been discussed on MP forums before

You're right this is what the forums for. Boring redundancy, but I tell you what. I'll DM you my onlyfans page for some original unique content. Let me know how you like the BDSM drills with my gimp suit. If it bleeds it sells!

Danny, you're exactly right. And this is the place to have that dialog, snarky shitty comments aside. Woodcock and other places are a travesty. I wonder if the organizations that buy these lands face a dilemma regarding an obligation to make the climbing safe and approachable for everyone. If so, then its better to leave them as is. Bolting protectable lines, especially in the lower grades, seems to be the norm these days. 

Thanks Chris, I'd rather get it out here than in heated person where I may say something I don't mean and regret it after. Just a quick look at the response and it seems clear most people would rather I just shut up. 

   But I think our opinion matters. This discussion got heated on the woodcock section and the administrators pulled it down. Those same people didn't have anything to say to the actual issue I've presented here. Which seemed to be the main issue of others who chimed in. The response was a deflection to route name and FA squabble. Which is a side issue to the real dilemma. 

I was unfamiliar with Woodcock Cove. So, I just did a little online searching. Kudos to SCC for securing what looks like an awesome place. I enjoyed learning about this place just now. LINK to SCC's page. 

Danny, I couldn’t agree with you more. It’s especially frustrating that organizations which should be stewards of climbing look the other way with retrobolting or don’t try and educate ethics. 

Chop them and let god sort them out.

You should demand to see the manager at the SCC

Ask yourself this, is it the route that's unsafe or your ego before you get on it? 

    Don't expect respect if you can't show respect.

Lamenting about how your chosen style is “truer” or “purer” makes you just as much an egoist as someone who shouldn’t bolt protectable features

Chris Watfordwrote:

Danny, you're exactly right. And this is the place to have that dialog, snarky shitty comments aside. Woodcock and other places are a travesty. I wonder if the organizations that buy these lands face a dilemma regarding an obligation to make the climbing safe and approachable for everyone. If so, then its better to leave them as is. Bolting protectable lines, especially in the lower grades, seems to be the norm these days. 

Half a boulder field blown up for cookie cutter houses is a travesty
I’m having a hard time seeing the comparison

Mark E Dixonwrote:

You should demand to see the manager at the SCC

I don't know the details but maybe the OP has a valid concern. 

Would you be okay with this happening in CO? Say, Eldo or the SPlatte?

nbrownwrote:

I don't know the details but maybe the OP has a valid concern. 

Would you be okay with this happening in CO? Say, Eldo or the SPlatte?

Me personally? I couldn't care less. 

Otoh, I realize that some folks value trad routes and I believe they should have the opportunity to climbs routes they enjoy.

Making a case to leave cracks bolt-free is one thing. 

Advocating bolt chopping on somebody else's property is another.

Skyler Scruggswrote:

Half a boulder field blown up for cookie cutter houses is a travesty
I’m having a hard time seeing the comparison

You should have bought the property or got others to help you buy it.

This is a different conversation. That should be why you're having a hard time seeing the comparison.

Skyler Scruggswrote:

Half a boulder field blown up for cookie cutter houses is a travesty
I’m having a hard time seeing the comparison

Im sure you are. 

nbrownwrote:

I don't know the details but maybe the OP has a valid concern. 

Would you be okay with this happening in CO? Say, Eldo or the SPlatte?

It already is...

https://www.instagram.com/p/ClciF60LsMk/

Tim FromMainewrote:

It already is...

https://www.instagram.com/p/ClciF60LsMk

My prophecies are coming true!