Update Snake Dike Description

About two weeks ago, and again about one week ago I used "improve this page" to add a second paragraph to the description of Snake Dike to explain why it's R rated and the skills and experience parties should have before attempting it. But the description has not been updated and there has been no response. I feel if Mountain Project is going to describe and enable people to get on this climb it has a responsibility to include this information. Please update the description accordingly.  

Gloweringwrote:

About two weeks ago, and again about one week ago I used "improve this page" to add a second paragraph to the description of Snake Dike to explain why it's R rated and the skills and experience parties should have before attempting it. But the description has not been updated and there has been no response. I feel if Mountain Project is going to describe and enable people to get on this climb it has a responsibility to include this information. Please update the description accordingly.  

I agree the description should be updated but MP has no “responsibility” to do so.

Did you add a comment at least?

Bump. 4th try to get the route description updated. 

I say this respectfully…Dude just add your comment and move on with your life. 

Cesar Cardenaswrote:

I say this respectfully…Dude just add your comment and move on with your life. 

There's 86 comments. I doubt many people read them all. The description is the correct place for this info. Like SuperTopo includes "easier climbing wanders up the salmon-colored dike for four pitches with very runout 5.4 R and 5.3 R sections. On the worst runouts, you will climb as much as 75 feet of 5.4 R without any protection, clip a bolt, and then climb another 75 feet of 5.4 R to the anchor. Climb carefully on these amazing, secure, and dangerously runout sections." 

I've made 4 attempts to do my part to help prevent further accidents and feel I've done enough. If the page admins don't want to approve any changes it's on them now.

Cesar Cardenaswrote:

I say this respectfully…Dude just add your comment and move on with your life. 

Although admins can then just remove your comment if it bothers them or suggests that their description isn't very good.

I posted this topic because I don’t know how the backend on MP works. I assume the admins of the page do a good job and are volunteers. I would hope an email notice goes out to them when someone makes a suggestion. But there’s multiple page admins and maybe they all assume another one is taking care of it. It’s kind of weird that you make a suggestion and it just goes into a black hole. No update or response. So I made a few efforts to try to make the change because I’d like to help future climbers if possible. Its weird to me that people think I should “move on with my life” when I’m just putting in a little effort to try to help people and possibly prevent a future accident. 

Agreed! Suggestions shouldn’t go into a black hole without a response from the Admins for that area. It’s disconcerting  to put effort into making updates just to have them ignored or discarded without feedback.

Hats off to our main New Mexico admin! He’s very quick to process change requests for us. 

Anna Brownwrote:

Agreed! Suggestions shouldn’t go into a black hole without a response from the Admins for that area. It’s disconcerting  to put effort into making updates just to have them ignored or discarded without feedback.

Hats off to our main New Mexico admin! He’s very quick to process change requests for us. 

FYI, there are 5,700 routes in New Mexico managed by 5 admins. There are 39,200 routes in California, managed by 5 admins.

Sounds like California needs more admins? Are you volunteering?

I’d suggests there are admins who have moved on and are no longer active. It seems only one of our NM admins is active. He’s moderated every change I’ve made to the database.

Anna Brownwrote:

Sounds like California needs more admins? Are you volunteering?

I’d suggests there are admins who have moved on and are no longer active. It seems only one of our NM admins is active. He’s moderated every change I’ve made to the database.

I volunteer as tribute!

Tradibanwrote:

I volunteer as tribute!

Fox in the henhouse!  ;)

Has someone thought to just ask Josh Janes to make a change? he's the OP of the route. He also contributes from time to time to MP ;) 

And he's an admin. 

Glowering,

I received your update suggestions both the first and second time you submitted them. After incorporating your good update to the pitch 2 description which adds info on the length of the runout to the anchor, I wrote a response to you thanking you for your suggestion and explaining why I didn't incorporate your other edit which was an explanation of what the R-rating means and your opinion on the necessary preparation required for climbing Snake Dike. Perhaps check your junk folders if you haven't seen my response, but for the public record:

The R-rating is fairly clearly defined already even if, like climbing grades, we may debate over the nuances of its meaning. I do not feel that Snake Dike, or any other route with an R-rating, needs explanation of what the R-rating means - even in the context of that route in particular. Sometimes it is helpful, but climbers should already know what "R" means and if they don't, they should perform their due diligence to seek out a basic understanding of our climbing rating systems and terms. As far as how that relates to Snake Dike: The R-rating means that long or dangerous falls are possible that would likely lead to major injury or even death. That's the definition of R and it is no different or unique for Snake Dike. The description and the 86 or so comments (culled from over 100 at one point) already describe the runouts and lack of protection on this route (as do the descriptions in various guidebooks). 

In summary, I think your edit to clarify the length of the runout in feet to the anchor of Pitch 2 was great. But defining (or expounding upon) commonly understood terms for the benefit of the uninformed in the text of a route description is superfluous and quite possibly a slippery slope.

Thanks again for your suggestions! I welcome them and I try to be personally considerate of and responsive to all suggestions for improvements to my route descriptions. Keep in mind my contributions to this site have evolved over 2+ decades of climbing (and life) and I'm not perfect, but I hope you can understand that some things are just a matter of personal taste, style, or opinion and not every suggestion will be integrated - it's not personal. MP is not SuperTopo or any other guidebook - it is its own thing, and descriptions are as unique as the users who submit them: They may perfectly capture the info you want and describe the experience you've had, or they may grossly fall short (or go over the top). That's just the nature of the game. And as has been pointed out, there are relatively few admins and the sheer volume of contributions, and climbers making suggestions, means sometimes it takes time to get to everything. Remember, we are volunteers and have lives - thank you for your patience. I hope you and others have found my content helpful or at least mildly entertaining as you've pursued your climbing adventures over the years. And please always feel free to reach out to me personally through a private message as that's a great way to get answers to your questions and build relationships.

Kind regards,

Josh

Hen in the foxhouse?

Thanks Josh!

I didn’t receive a message from you. The last emails I see from MP are from another user in back in August, and nothing in junk  

Thanks for updating the description of the pitches. Sorry I didn’t think to read through that and was just looking for the suggested second paragraph.

I think because this is the first R rated route a lot of people try (due to its classic status and easy rating) more than the typical description is warranted.

I think your updates were great. Not explaining climbing terms but enough detail in the description so people can picture what it’s like and prepare accordingly.

I appreciate the volunteer work you and other admins do. I wasn’t sure if it was cool to message the admins directly so I started this thread. Thanks for your response and offer to engage in PMs. 

Is someone on the Mountain Project coding team able to track down why the email reply didn’t arrive? Is that functionality possibly broken?