Convince me not to be a guide

Did you get the covid injection? One reason eye had to make the decision not to. 

I have some friends that have guided and have seen other options - it's nice to not have injury end your source of income AND your hobby. If you have a desk job, you can be injured and still pay for housing and medical needs. 

Being an Outdoor cat is best, but it ages you.   All that time in the wind and sun and all the stress.  

Just ask this 31 yr old guide after guiding for 6 yrs

I have friends like H. Greg who love being a full time guide. I also have a husband who did it for a few seasons and was REALLY good at it, maybe one of the best. But, he was out guiding while the rest of us were our climbing for fun and getting stronger. He also got very discouraged with how the system works in the industry and with the NPS. He would rather work retail. 

As for me, I am a full time teacher. I work 184 days a year. I thought I'd get my SPI for funnsies and guide on the side. By the end of the course, that was a hard pass. I realized I'd rather climb for fun. The same reason I didn't want to fitness train on the side. I don't want to work while my friends are out playing. 

However...I have spent A LOT of time mentoring ladies who are getting into climbing. It is the best of both worlds. I get to give back and help others AND I'm not pressured because of money. I love teaching and helping out, so this was the best way for me to do that.

In the end, it depends on your end game. If you think you want to guide forever, go for it. But once you leave school it will be hard to want to go back. If you aren't sure, a degree is never a bad thing. You can guide on the side and even full time after the degree is on you wall. THEN go into your profession of choice. My best, personal advice...be a teacher! I work 184 days a year, Healthcare, retirement, all holidays and weekends off, and I make really good money. 

Or...as someone said earlier, marry rich. Lol

Think of how much you'll spend for liability insurance that doesn't really cover you. . .

If you make your hobby your job, you no longer have a hobby. 

Mark Hudonwrote:

If you make your hobby your job, you no longer have a hobby. 

Yup, a better way to say all that I did above.

Not Hobo Greg wrote:

I agree, which is why I don’t yet have the desire to guide big multipitch. That’s my favorite kind of climbing and so I keep that for me. For single and short multi, I love sharing those experiences with people.

imo, this claim ^ is suspect. any guide would lead anyone up anything given the right amount of monies (or happy finish as hinted at above).

jcs

I work full-time as a teacher and part-time as a guide. Although I love guiding and would do it FT if I could, working as a guide FT (say 4 days a week) would not replace what I earn in teaching. 

It would also mean giving up my health insurance and going on my wife's plan, raising the premium, or going without. If you're young and single and living out of your car, that might all work out. Otherwise, it doesn't so much.

Sometimes a guiding day is awesome. If you get just 1 or 2 people, a family, or a lead or trad course, for example, it can be a lot of fun. You'll probably get to do some climbing to put ropes up, you get to share your passion, and there's the pleasure of seeing your clients learn and enjoy and develop real enthusiasm for it. Every once in a while, you'll get an experienced climber who's in town for a wedding or business or something and hires a guide due to not having a partner. Those days can be really awesome.

But a lot of the work you'll do, especially as an SPI, will be large youth and scout groups. Those days can be fun, but often they're not because many of the kids don't really want to be there and many of them fool around while their group leaders ignore them, turning us into babysitters for liability purposes. 

Those days also usually involve going out in the dark with a heavy pack to set up and staying later to clean up and reorganize gear. It's a long day, it's noisy and crowded, you piss off other climbers because you have ropes on all the popular beginner routes, you work your ass off, you probably won't be paid extra for the extra hours (which can tally up to 3 or 4), and you usually don't get tipped.

Also, if you explore the PT route, say goodbye to your weekends during the busy seasons, and then you're back at work Monday morning, exhausted. I worked almost every weekend this past April and May, and though I appreciated the work and the extra money, I was feeling really burned out with the long weekend days and the extra driving on top of 40+ stressful hours at my regular job. All I wanted was sleep.

As others have mentioned, you'll also find that you have less time for your own climbing, and you may see your skill stagnate and maybe even regress. But you'll be the master of every 5.6 around, lol.

My advice is to get your degree and explore guiding as a part-time option. See if it's really for you. 

If it is, then ask yourself if you're going to be able to live somewhere that allows you to guide full-time, or if you can, as others here have said, work in different disciplines throughout the year. 

Also, see what program works for your situation. Guiding has more than paid for my SPI course, exam, and recertification, but although I'd love to have Rock Guide, it would be useless for me here in Central Texas where there is just a handful of multi-pitch routes and not many people sign up for them, and I couldn't justify the costs. 

The only real reason I can see for having Rock Guide if you're working in single-pitch terrain is that it never expires, which certainly makes a difference if you're young and want to make a career of it. You have to recertify SPI every 3 years, and it's annoying because you have to do the full exam, not a skills check, and it isn't cheap.

As I said, guiding is often an awesome experience, but it does have its downsides to consider.

Not Hobo Greg wrote:

I agree, which is why I don’t yet have the desire to guide big multipitch. That’s my favorite kind of climbing and so I keep that for me. For single and short multi, I love sharing those experiences with people.

Wait so things magically change when I make a belay transition?

I’d argue that’s the one part of guiding I like the most… bigger pay big tips big adventure more technical. You can have the casual top roping days lol

Greg Daviswrote:

Wait so things magically change when I make a belay transition?

I’d argue that’s the one part of guiding I like the most… bigger pay big tips big adventure more technical. You can have the casual top roping days lol

I'm with ya, Greg! I cruised up 10 pitches today (3 and 7) for work. It's pretty magical when everything flows and you have the right guests. I find multipitch is where I get to really test my systems the most, really see if I can think ahead and make things fluid. Granted the rope work is what I like the most about climbing, so it's understandable I like playing with rope while working.

Mark Hudonwrote:

If you make your hobby your job, you no longer have a hobby. 

That's only one side of the coin.  The other is you no longer have a job.

"If you really love what you do for a living, you'll never work a day in your life."

C. Defecto wrote:

Said no one who actually works for a living.

Lol!  So true.  I'm retired but taught at the community college level for nearly 30 years.  I loved it--a lot.  Mostly.  Except when I didn't.  And, damn, there were days....  Near the end, it was getting pretty bad, too many deadbeat students, idiotic admins, etc.  Every job is work at times, even if you love it.

Not Hobo Greg wrote:

No but things like 4th class approaches/descents, looser rock, potential for serious weather. Those are all things I enjoy on my own but wouldn’t want to guide. Things like Devils Tower on the other hand suit my preferences, and it’s still a big climb and a big accomplishment for people. So yes I enjoy guiding multi pitch, more so “introductory” terrain and not big complex terrain. 

Don’t you guide in Josh? Feel like those multi pitch routes are chill.

SPIs are only supposed to guide single pitch right?

Depending on how you want your life to be and where you live you could guide and have a reasonably stable home life. I’m a teacher during the school year and will occasionally guide on weekends during the shoulder season. I guide all summer and get paid a daily rate plus whatever I make in tips. The company I work for does a lot of small private group outings and I often get to go climb a bunch of moderate classics with a pretty competent partner. I generally enjoy large groups too, but that probably has something to do with my experience in education. If you don’t have a ton of responsibilities right now it’s a really nice way to spend a ton of time in a climbing area you like and then hang with your coworkers and go climbing before / after a workday. Most of the folks I work with are super passionate about being guides and really fired up about their personal climbing too so it makes for a good workplace dynamic. I’ve enjoyed my experience as a single pitch guide at Devils Lake so far and will for sure continue it 

this has probably been said already but just quit immediately and start dirtbagging before the whole world burns.

M Mwrote:

SPIs are only supposed to guide single pitch right?

As of this year scope of practice is enforced and they have an elite team of snitches lying in wait below the swift

M Mwrote:

SPIs are only supposed to guide single pitch right?

There are a couple exceptions: taking the RG Course makes one an Apprentice Guide. Still only SPI certified, but in some circumstances they can guide multipitch terrain. Also old-timers might be classified as Tenured Guides, and are thus not bound by the AMGA terrain guidelines.