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Does the send count if you take on a screw?
Colton H wrote: facts |
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Not a send for me but I could care less what you call it ... Also really not a great habit to get into, if you actually climb hard ice you're gonna get on something that doesn't have the option of putting in a screw where you need it at some point, better to be able to climb than to depend on hanging, same with clipping into tools, for sure do it to avoid a fall but be aware that at some point that option won't be there when you want it to be and you need to be able to climb your way out of the problem. |
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I took on a screw for the first time last weekend. I will say it did not feel like a send. In fact it somehow felt like less of a send than a clean TR lap. On a related note - has anyone experienced severe muscle cramps climbing while hungover? |
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Grant. that is precisely why I advocate lots of soloing to be prepared for the situations where its not protectable. I try to break the climb into sections. If i don't think i can get to the next gear placement without pumping out then its time to bail. If however I look at the next section and see that i will need to boulder the next 20ft to get to good gear and that 20ft is within my soloing comfort then I am good to go. If for some reason I run into an unprotectable section that I did not accurately forecast I still have my soloing experience to get me through to the next gear. |
Cron wrote: Dehydration |
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On the same note however, if I am getting pumped out and fire in a screw its decision time. Do I have the gas to make it to the next stance? If that answer is not solid yes then by all means take a hang. Its not worth getting a broken leg over ego and stupid made up rules. Heck even Will Gadd advocates this method of staying healthy. |
Nick Goldsmith wrote: Ok, soloing as training for roped climbing. I get it (??). |
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Absolutely. Soloing lots of long grade 3 and shorter but steeper columns makes you a much safer leader on big 4+ and 5 routes. |
Nick Goldsmith wrote: But then doing lots of big routes inevitably results in you running it out or having somewhat dubious pro, with similar results. But I developed my early ice climbing skills with a lot of soloing on seracs and dry glaciers. I like ropes. |
Nick Goldsmith wrote: Have you encountered many totally un protectable pitches on wI5 and under routes? Excluding skinny pillars. I have run into chandeliered, unconsolidated sections but never more then a few meters before a screw placement can be dug out or a V-thread could be made somewhere to bail. The scenario where i look at a pitch and think “oh yeah ill get some good gear in” then start climbing and find nothing seems quite unlikely… Maybe i just dont climb hard enough or often enough to run into that situation… You advocate lots of soloing, but As you said “you might even die”…that applies to soloing too I watched an extremely experienced and very capable climber take a big unexpected fall last week…his first one in 40 years. Seems like the rope is usually a good idea… |
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You may have "sent" it, but you didn't "style" the climb. |
ryan Smith wrote: I've seen quite a few pitches of 5-5+ where you weren't getting a screw I would weigh or anything to bail off of for 50+ feet, thin, aerated ice, or delaminating ice isn't uncommon at that grade. I've also seen a couple of whole pitches of essentially unprotectable WI4, not hard climbing but 1-2" thick and completely delaminated and snicy ice, those are usually pretty obvious that it isn't going to be casual getting pro but I have been quite surprised how tough it was, in some places the ice was 3' from the rock... |
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Grant. bingo. Unprotected sections are quite common in my experience. I suppose if you were lucky enough to get out with a partner 4 times a week you would get pretty strong and confident enough that it would be a non issue. Myself I have to work all week and my after work soloing sessions are key to me being able to lead reasonably well and safely on the weekends. i just did 4 laps on some 50ft grade 4 road cut pillars about 40 min from my house. That is absolutely going to help me this weekend when climbing with a partner. If its too cold to climb with a partner or my partner is injured etc. i usually get out solo on something easy and longer. that helps me stay current . skipping a single weekend mid ice season equates to a 2 week hiatus to us working stiffs. . that does not lend itself well to being safe and solid on a grade 5 lead. Most of the really strong ice climbers i know who are not full time guides solo regularly. the guides get plenty of soloing while being belayed by clients ;) |
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Sounds like that was all fairly obvious looking at the route, and maybe this is my limited experience on hard ice routes, but 50ft where you couldn’t even find a screw placement that could hold body weight? On a WI5? Sound like ice I would barley trust a tool stick in. Definitely not something i would look at and say “well since i have alot of experience soloing 3s and 4s ill just go ahead and run this junk ice out for 50ft…maybe im just a chicken. |
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this pitch looks pretty reasonable but it was so airated that i pretty much shit my pants. every screw hit air pockets...  |
Nick Goldsmith wrote: i knew this conversation would lead to some cool climbing photos from you! That shit dose not look “pretty reasonable” to me haha! |
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here's a pitch of WI4 that had no gear for all practical purposes, I have at least a couple screws in the picture but they were either bottomed stubbies in junk or long screws in ice that was 1/2" thick and a foot from the rock, looking from the base I thought I'd get at least a couple good screws, not the case, and not that easy to downclimb as I pretty much blew out every placement moving up on it... as to the above, I find that quite a bit of unprotectable ice is actually really easy to climb if you can get the brain out of the equation, vertical styrofoam snice is as fun as climbing gets, just don't be wasting time looking for gear that isn't there...  |
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You have a selection of Gunkiemike’s super stubbies right? (7-8 cm) It’s relatively rare that there’s no place to get one of them in properly somewhere And just curious if no pin placements either A couple pins can also sometimes provide some options. |
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Grant, so that was a full pitch of hollow/detached 1/2in Ice or sub 10mm thick ice? But from the ground it looked good? And it was all breaking apart as you climbed. Spooky |
ryan Smith wrote: pretty much, it's pretty clearly not fat blue ice the whole way but it doesn't look all that bad, to the comment on super stubbies, no, I don't have any, I don't climb much NE ice and I don't find sub 10cm screws to be worth much in typical western ice, I'm sure there are exceptions but they aren't common enough to pack around that kind of gear...I had some pins and rock gear on me for this one, the rock in this case is pretty horrible, I poked around a bit but didn't find anything worth clipping. |
