Minimal Climbing Commands

Eli W wrote:

It's useful if rockfall is a concern, although "CLEAR" is clearer. 

And no more tension in the rope is even clearer. There is still no need to yell anything in this situation.

Please tell me how yelling is any safer than releasing the tension in the rope when rockfall danger exists? Either way the message gets to your partner that it is safe for them to start to rappel. 

The issue I've had with the no-more-tension approach is if the rappeller stops mid rap on some ledge or something, out of sight. She releases enough tension to fool the next person into thinking she's off rappel when in fact, she is not. This happens, or better phrased, it happened to me and my partners enough times that we felt signaling (through the rope, in our case) was better than than just "assuming, because the rope went limp." Plus, you end up constantly pulling on the rap ropes to see if that slow slug of a partner is off rappel, yet. Like wtf is taking so long? That gets old. The little pull test is unambiguous and serves more than one purpose and really, pull tests need to be done anyway.

Greg D wrote:

And no more tension in the rope is even clearer. There is still no need to yell anything in this situation.

Please tell me how yelling is any safer than releasing the tension in the rope when rockfall danger exists? Either way the message gets to your partner that it is safe for them to start to rappel. 

Only in the circumstances where a) there is a lot of loose rock around the rap anchor, and b) I’ll need to traverse a little at the base of the rap, taking weight of the rope. I wouldn’t expect someone to wait for a signal unless I explicitly told them.

Generally it’s only something I’ve been super concerned about dropping into canyons with a free hanging rap, where there are ample loose rocks around the rim that will fall straight rather than bouncing off the wall.

all rope work is like fishing. you have to develop sensitive touch on the line to the point that you just know whats happening on the other end.. 

Greg D wrote:

And no more tension in the rope is even clearer. There is still no need to yell anything in this situation.

Please tell me how yelling is any safer than releasing the tension in the rope when rockfall danger exists? Either way the message gets to your partner that it is safe for them to start to rappel. 

I'm definitely in the Greg D camp on this one. I am also quite particular with whom I climb with. No slugs ar nooBs allowed. But... if it WAS one of those days with the slugs or nooBs tagging along, we would not get into a situation where verbal communication is paramount to our safety.

I and my climbing partners for many many years have always used "on belay" "belay on". That's in the American Alpine Club belay commands chart.

https://americanalpineclub.org/news/2017/1/19/4xm1fcsag6b7xqf1p1w1qp7vdpp1ha?rq=belay%20commands

I was told that I shouldn't say that until the leader has clipped the first protection piece (if belaying a leader). I think that is technically correct but pedantic and not in the spirit of the command. What are people doing in 2022?

Not Sure wrote:

I think that is technically correct but pedantic and not in the spirit of the command. What are people doing in 2022?

It is in fact technically correct but pedantic.

In 2022 people are arguing this very point at length on Mountain Project. On multiple threads.

The answer is; belayer and climber need to be clear with each other. Both parties should understand what’s going on in the system before and after clipping protection. 

Not Sure wrote:

What are people doing in 2022?

wishing for season 2 of the mandelorian instead of this boba fett crap.

dude died in the sarlac. end of story. i don't care what john favreau thinks....

F r i t z wrote:

"In direct" and "safe" are statements of fact, not commands. 

 Both are useless comments IMO unless the climber is mid pitch and wants to go in direct to a piece or bolt.  At the anchor the leader shouldn't say anything until he is off belay.  Saying "in direct" doesn't change anything the belayer does so its pretty useless.  Don't tell me anything until you tell me "off belay" anything extra just adds confusion.

Climber: "Ron?"

Belayer: "Jeremy"

And also,

Climber: "Reggie?"

Belayer: "Jackson"

Or when verbal commands can't be heard.

Leader: 2 long tugs = off

Climber waits a moment and pulls up slack until they are pulling on the second.

3 long tugs = second is on

Never could stand the chirping of radios...

I have developed a system of complex blinks and exaggerated yawns to communicate with my partners. Really helps keep the confusion to a minimum.

I use Rocky talkies: on belay, off belay, climbing, slack, take, watch me, on rappel, off rappel. 

I use only one signal:

I yell "Secure" when I have reached the belay and put my partner on belay.   When my partner hears this, it confirms that he can take me off belay and start climbing.  

Much easier and more clear than all the "on belay" "off belay" nonsense.  

We mostly use hand signals . if no line of sight then when all the rope is gone and i am pulling like heck its time to climb. 

I was told that I shouldn't say that until the leader has clipped the first protection piece (if belaying a leader). I think that is technically correct but pedantic and not in the spirit of the command. What are people doing in 2022?

It certainly reveals the single pitch myopia of the people who recommend such pedantry. I make them say it before Ieave the belay and worse? I make damn sure they do actually have me on belay. Its my rule. 

Tradiban wrote:

STOP YELLING! 

Ironic to issue that command using ALL CAPS

Off topic: 

Reminds me of simul-ing up Boulder’s 3rd Flat Iron from the very bottom with one of my sons after the 1st and 2nd Flat Irons.  It was early afternoon on a beautiful windless day. Eventually  there were 4 or 5 free soloists moving up the face as well but no other rope teams.  Super quiet … like a small herd of deer quietly / carefully / competently picking  their way through a dark spot in the woods.

Tradiban wrote:

STOP YELLING! IT'S NOT NECESSARY! 

TELL YOUR BELAYOR TO PAY OUT SLACK UNTIL IT'S GONE, THEN LET GO OF THE BELAY DEVICE AND JUST CLIMB!

So it’s a 30 meter pitch with a 70 meter rope and the belayer has to feed 40 meters of rope through their device to avoid yelling off belay?

On a more serious note, when the leader asked how much rope left and he hears  ….ty feet. I prefer the response to be something like “rope-three zero”

Prompt:  “okay?”

Response: “okay!”

Nothing else needs to be said…ever.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

We mostly use hand signals . if no line of sight then when all the rope is gone and i am pulling like heck its time to climb. 

On more than one occasion, I've been nearly unable to get the rope out of the belay device or take the anchor apart (using the rope) because my overly caffeinated partner starts yarding slack with no warning. I always give the 3 rope tug signal (off belay), wait about 15 seconds to give the second a chance to remove their device, pull up the excess slack, then 3 more rope tugs (on belay) followed by gentle tension so they can break down the anchor. I'm all for minimizing the yelling though.