Bringing a noob to the Trap Dike and weather questions?

Hi All, lurker here.  I was going to bring an experienced and fit hiker to the trap dike.  They have no climbing experience but are agile and adventurous.  Myself, I am a 5.8 trad climber but I have never done the trap dike myself which leads me to the second weather question.

I was going to bring some cams and a rope just in case they want some support through a hard section I can put them on belay.  They know what they are in for so they are not going to freak out, rather to give them some peace of mind if they need it.  I dont want to carry too much extra weight on a 13 mile hike, can anyone comment on some gear specifics so I dont unnecessarily carry too much weight.

-A 30m regular or a 60m half rope?  I think the 30 weighs less.

-I was going to leave the nuts and tricams at home because I dont want to give a crash course on teaching someone how to remove that stuff.  A cam is pretty easy concept to remove and have my partner throw onto his harness and keep scambling up.  

-Approach shoes the whole way or actual climbing shoes?

Weather: if it is a wash out then I probably dont want to do it if its soaked.  Not that I couldnt but rather it would be a long and miserable day.  How long does it hold water up in there.  Because this week has rain all in lake placid.  Thursday is going to clear out but be overcast.  Hopefully it can dry out thursday but there wont be much sun.  The plan is for us to go Friday or Saturday.  I am already getting a bad feeling that its still going to be soaked but I am not local to the area so maybe it dries quickly?

Thanks.

IMO this is just a bad idea. They'll probably be fine until the exit slab, I wouldn't want to be responsible for the life and wellbeing for a total noob at that point. 

I F wrote:

IMO this is just a bad idea. They'll probably be fine until the exit slab, I wouldn't want to be responsible for the life and wellbeing for a total noob at that point. 

can i put them on a hip belay or build a quick anchor?  Ill be the one leading the whole thing.

and yes they are noob to climbing.  But we have done plenty of hard hikes throughout the northeast that involve 20 feet of hard scrambling with potential for injury.  Just not 200 feet of scrambling.  So they trap dike is the likely next step up for them

Andrew Miller wrote:

can i put them on a hip belay or build a quick anchor?  Ill be the one leading the whole thing.

and yes they are noob to climbing.  But we have done plenty of hard hikes throughout the northeast that involve 20 feet of hard scrambling with potential for injury.  Just not 200 feet of scrambling.  So they trap dike is the likely next step up for them

Closer to 2,000ft.

We did the Trap Dike last summer and it was very wet, like climbing in a waterfall wet, even though it was a sunny dry day otherwise. There are two 5th class climbing moves, in my opinion, that were made more difficult by the water. There is a fixed pin by one of the moves.

However, I have plenty of non-climbing friends who have scrambled up without apparent difficulty so your partner may be fine.

So back when I just started climbing, We took a few avid hiker friends on the Trap Dyke. Nobody got hurt but they sure as shit got scared.

There is a technical crux in the waterfall section. Maybe hard class 4 but depending on how much water there is it may be harder. A fall would be disastrous. Then it depends where you engage the slab. The higher the easier and less scary. To get the FULL experience get on the slab at the top of the falls. There's a boulder problem move here but it's not exposed. Once on the slab the climbing is very easy but the exposure is insane for the beginner or non climber. There is a crack to follow on the left side and a belay can be made at the end of it. If memory serves, it was a hand-crack but it eventually peters out before a small ledge. The higher you get the exposure diminishes considerably. Above the initial crack there was a lack of good crack anchors, to belay further you can used the trees along the sides. The best climbing was in the middle of the slab. I think there was one more hard move way up high but at that point everyone is comfortable and the exposure is minimal.

A 30 meter rope should be enough, a few cams and a set of nuts. You don't need climbing shoes but a pair of approach shoes or good hiking boot with a Vibram sole is recommended.

It's a great outing and a real thrill for the beginner.

It's no coincidence that the most challenging moves are in what is called the waterfall. After all the recent rain, I would expect this section to be awash, even if you've had a day or two of dry weather.

I wouldn't worry about placing gear through there. If you can't solo it, it's probably a bit much for your partner. As for your anchor above this section, I'll defer to folks who have been there more recently than I have (i.e. post-Irene), but IIRC there are (used to be?) trees up there you can use. No need for gear.

All my remarks are for the old slide. I have no clue how the new slide works. From the pictures it doesn't seem to be as exposed as the old one was. The old one had a 300 foot cliff at the bottom of it. 

I wouldn't overthink it--worse case scenario (eg its too wet for you) just turn around before climbing anything that wouldn't be completely easy to down-climb. The hike to avalanche lake and back is in itself quite nice.

I did it about a month ago via the old slide. I would suggest approach shoes or hiking boots--no rock shoes. One can exit the dike without any climbing or exposure if you do it in the trees (see photo, white dotted line). Then you can gain the old slab and stay on it if you want (the classic route I think, upper exit), or exit into the trees on climbers left if your partner gets scared. The slab itself is quite chill and no rope is required, or even useful IMO. I don't think my hands were even tempted to touch the rock on the whole slab, and I suck at slab climbing. Perhaps walk behind your partner--they may find this re-assuring. 

With attentive route finding, and a willingness to backtrack when needed, you can do the dike without any 4th class climbing, or nearly even any 3rd class climbing, except one 10-15ft step of 4th class (which is at the final '"water fall" I think). Here you can use a short rope and a body belay backed up with a cam (uncertain size). Even if wet, this section has positive holds and big steps, so any risk of falling would be unlikely. (I bet you will bring your 30M and a few cams and not use them).

As long as there hasn't been a heavy rain storm within 72hr before your trip you'll be fine, maybe even 48hr. Regular or light rain the day before would be fine too. I believe the water flow is light this year overall--over memorial day weekend there was a mild flow of water and I did not get my hands or feet wet.

Post on MP how your climb went. If you use a cam on the 4th class rock, maybe remember the size and location and add it to the route comments for others to see.

I think where it says 'old slide start' in yellow, you would then have to do a few hundred feet of low fifth class slab before your gain the easier 3.5 class slab which is above that horizontal bar of trees near the level of where the white dotted line starts.

M R wrote:

As long as there hasn't been a heavy rain storm within 72hr before your trip you'll be fine, maybe even 48hr. Regular or light rain the day before would be fine too. I believe the water flow is light this year overall--over memorial day weekend there was a mild flow of water and I did not get my hands or feet wet.

Recently (one or two weeks ago) there was a helicopter extraction of a severely injured 59 y.o. woman.
She has fallen while hiking in the rain.

Yury wrote:

Recently (one or two weeks ago) there was a helicopter extraction of a severely injured 59 y.o. woman.
She has fallen while hiking in the rain.

I wouldn't do this route while its raining, for a variety of reasons. 

Also, who knows how many folks climb this route per year? A few hundred? So yes, if you climb this route, there is maybe a 1/1000 chance that you will fall and need to be rescued, especially if climbing it in the rain.

I think it’s a great adventure route for the non-climber, especially when they’re accompanied by a more experienced climber like the OP. 

I did this last summer and it was a blast.

There is a 2 or 3 move crux towards the top of the waterfall section which is towards the top of the gully. The moves really aren't hard at all, barely fifth class, but a few key holds are likely to be running with water, and a fall would likely result in serious injury or possibly death. I would guess you'd be comfortable soling it, and setting an anchor to bring your partner up, or even just give them a fixed hand line to pull on if they want. 30m would be more than enough rope (10m probably enough). I didn't set any gear so I don't have any specifics, but a 3-5 cams would probably be plenty.

 I wouldn't want to do the slab in the rain with a non climber, but I would imagine if the roads and exposed rock are dry the slab will be dry, and the crux section of the gully is almost always wet, so I wouldn't worry too much abut seepage. I went up the newer white slide, which involves exiting the gully later than the old slide (pretty much the top of the gully as I recall. I remember a few moves up an easy low angle crack to gain the slab, though I think that just looked like the most fun way, not necessarily the easiest. Then another 2 or three moves at the very top of the slab where it gets a little steeper for the last ten feet or so. My partner who is an experienced climber but with very little slab experience thought that was the crux of the day. the rest of the slab was very easy, never needed to use hands. I think you can always bail out of the slab to one side or the other and scrabble through the trees if your partner gets freaked out. would be slow going and kind of a slog, but safe. 

Approach shoes are the way to go, if you can get your partner in some with sticky rubber that will make the slab feel more secure, though the friction on it is excellent so not a must by any means.

Andrew Miller wrote:

Hi All, lurker here.  I was going to bring an experienced and fit hiker to the trap dike.  They have no climbing experience but are agile and adventurous.  Myself, I am a 5.8 trad climber but I have never done the trap dike myself which leads me to the second weather question.

I was going to bring some cams and a rope just in case they want some support through a hard section I can put them on belay.  They know what they are in for so they are not going to freak out, rather to give them some peace of mind if they need it.  I dont want to carry too much extra weight on a 13 mile hike, can anyone comment on some gear specifics so I dont unnecessarily carry too much weight.

-A 30m regular or a 60m half rope?  I think the 30 weighs less.

-I was going to leave the nuts and tricams at home because I dont want to give a crash course on teaching someone how to remove that stuff.  A cam is pretty easy concept to remove and have my partner throw onto his harness and keep scambling up.  

-Approach shoes the whole way or actual climbing shoes?

Weather: if it is a wash out then I probably dont want to do it if its soaked.  Not that I couldnt but rather it would be a long and miserable day.  How long does it hold water up in there.  Because this week has rain all in lake placid.  Thursday is going to clear out but be overcast.  Hopefully it can dry out thursday but there wont be much sun.  The plan is for us to go Friday or Saturday.  I am already getting a bad feeling that its still going to be soaked but I am not local to the area so maybe it dries quickly?

Why are you doing this? Is it for your friend or for yourself?

Plenty of non-climbers do the Trap Dyke without a rope. If it was me, I would advise to wait until your friend is confident enough to give it a go without needing assistance (unless he specifically requested your assistance).  

There are a lot of easier exposed slides to do first. Bennie's Brook slide on Lower Wolf Jaw is a good starter slide. The 1995 slide on Colden is a blast with a very nice approach. The Whiteface Brook  slide (AKA the iconic Lake Placid Slide) is a step up from either of those but probably easier than the Trap Dyke.

A nice "climby" hike is Giant via Mossy Cascade. A large part of the ascent up Giant is up waterfall steps and requires the use at hands. (come down Roaring Brook trail and walk back road to your car for a nice loop)

HOWEVER, there looks to be a 60% chance of rain up there Friday and Saturday. In the Adirondacks that translates to pretty much "it's going to rain". It is really best to wait for dry spell to do any Adirondack slide and especially a drainage like the Trap Dyke. I'd say 3 days at least. 

(There just happens to be a thread going on about this over HERE. I consider the Trap Dyke in summer to be a hiking objective. You might get more responses there.)

Yury wrote:

Recently (one or two weeks ago) there was a helicopter extraction of a severely injured 59 y.o. woman.
She has fallen while hiking in the rain.

Nice write up with pictures here: https://www.dec.ny.gov/press/123340.html 

YGD (someone had to say it…)

thanks to all the info.  unfortunately Mtn project will only let me post once a day since my account is new so I cant reply to all of your posts.

I've don't the whole thing in trail runners and it was a little slippery on the exit slabs but that was mostly from the kitty litter. It really is steep hiking that a "fit" "adventurous" person would be able to cruise. It's a long way to carry a rope and adds to the adventure if down climbing is your bail option. If you do bring a rope, something like a 30m half rope or smaller might be nice. Just a single cord used "off label" but would improve your margin of safety and wouldn't be so cumbersome to carry. And if I'm remembering correctly, once you're on the exits slabs you can always bail into the bushes at the top. It would be awful and 'shwacky but you wouldn't have any risk of falling off the mountain... I say bring approach shoes and have a fun scramble.

Hey everyone, thanks for the info.  I realized I never checked back in.  If someone could give me some advice for next time it would be appreciated.

So what happened was we got to the dyke, weather was holding off but looking grey.  Went up it slowly and easy scrambing.  Got this this section in my picture link here.

https://imgur.com/o4IPqP9

Going all the way left (red was soaking wet).  Going middle red was soaking wet. Not neccesarily hard, just smooth wet rock. It started to rain.  What I did was start to scramble up the blue corner.  I got mostly up that and had my stomach on the table top section.  Maybe 2-3 handholds and I was up.  It was bigger than I thought and couldnt get an easy grip on the other side.  I could have kept going but I knew my partner was not going to like it.  He was already nervous.  Even if i put him on the rope and dragged him up that blue section despite the uncomfortableness, I was not sure what was beyond the next little step section 30 feet beyond that?    Then you go up over the next little staircase section and you are onto the slabs?  But if I was wrong and pulled him up and we werent actually at the crux, downclimbing would have spelled trouble.  I ended up downclimbing the blue section and suggesting we turn around.

Questions, is this considered the "crux" section with the v3 move?  Is it indeed what marked blue?  Do people go in one of the red paths when their is less water?  We were the only ones there and it had started to rain so common sense got the best of me.  If one of us slipped and broke an ankle, getting out of their would have been a major rescue effort.

Thanks!

You weren’t around for the rescue were you?

there was a helicopter that flew overhead the day we were there, not for us!