Small cams

I need some small cams, and a couple tiny offsets. Should I go with dragonfly’s, or BD z4s? And I know, there are totems and aliens, but I’ve narrowed it down to these two because they are the same size and color as my current cams, they are not extremely pricy, and they are way lighter than totems. I guess I’d look into aliens but I like the other two brands better

Finally, someone asks this question. It's about time.

Reese Milburnwrote:

I need some small cams, and a couple tiny offsets. Should I go with dragonfly’s, or BD z4s? And I know, there are totems and aliens, but I’ve narrowed it down to these two because they are the same size and color as my current cams, they are not extremely pricy, and they are way lighter than totems. I guess I’d look into aliens but I like the other two brands better

Yes

I'm a big fan of the Z4's, particularly in the 0.3 and 0.4 sizes. The smaller single axle cams inspire a reasonable amount of confidence with a better range than other micro cams that I have run into, but the trigger feel isn't as smooth as the larger sizes.  That being said, pretty much every micro cam I've come across has a garbage trigger feel anyway.  I dont have experience with the dragonfly's, but the speed and ease of placement with the Z4's makes them a go-to every time shit starts getting hairy.

I’m going through the same debate right now. I don’t like the Z4s under .3 because the triggers feel terribly mushy, and while I love the small Metolius ULMCs, they aren’t great in horizontals. I just bought the smallest DMM Dragonfly. Will get back to you with my thoughts when it comes in.

Aliens are sick! I love my cch and my totem basics. Fallen on both and hold 

It always depends. The dragonflies have smaller camming angles and narrower ranges, so you need to be more precise in your placements, while the Z4s, especially the double axle ones, are more forgiving for picking the right size cam for the crack. The tradeoff is that double axle cams are likelier to pull in a shallow horizontal placement.

If you're considering getting a double set of small cams, consider Z4s + totems, if only bc the totems are excellent in-between sizes to the Z4s but are close enough in range to be considered doubles, while dragonflies don't match as well. also the totems have some offset capabilities.

https://cam-parison.com/#items=bz0,df1,df2,df3,df4,df5,df6,bz1,bz2,bz3,bz4,bz5,bz7,tte,ttf,tth,tt1,ttj,ttk,ttn&sortOn=size&expansion=max&color=cam&units=metric&scale=linear&weights=hide

Peter Ywrote:

It always depends. The dragonflies have smaller camming angles and narrower ranges, so you need to be more precise in your placements, while the Z4s, especially the double axle ones, are more forgiving for picking the right size cam for the crack. The tradeoff is that double axle cams are likelier to pull in a shallow horizontal placement.

I love the Z4s for .3 and above. Personally, I'm looking for alternative cams smaller than that to avoid the .2 and .1 Z4, which both feel terrible to me. 

I have a wide variety of small cams, as I was indecisive when bottoming out my rack so decided to make it interesting. I have, in size order, a black totem, 0.2 X4 (same size), 0.1 Z4, WC Zero 3, and Dragonfly 0. My favorite is obviously the totem, but it's not super small. Between the Z4 and Dragonfly, there are pros and cons.

I really like the trigger pull on the Dragonfly much better, but it "wobbles" kinda easily. Never had an issue with this while placing it, but could see how placing it while pumped could be finicky. The Z4 trigger pull, as mentioned above, could be described as mushy. Not super smooth and a little harder to pull. Once it's placed tho, it seems to get the job done just fine.

They both do their job, and it would be hard to pick between the two, but I'd probably go with the Dragonfly. However, the difference is miniscule. 

Get whatever is on sale.

I have the red and yellow BD 3cam units. I heard they no longer make them? those are my absolute go to pieces! what would replace them??? 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

I have the red and yellow BD 3cam units. I heard they no longer make them? those are my absolute go to pieces! what would replace them??? 

Z4s, Dragonflies, Totems, UL Mastercams and Zero Friends are all good in those sizes. Nothing will truly replace green/purple/gray C3s. The small dragonflies and zero friends are really floppy (especially the dragonflies). The small Z4s seem fine, but nothing will be as durable and easy to place as the smallest C3s in that range. The trigger cords on the smallest UL Mastercams break very easily. 

I agree with those extolling the virtues of the C3s. I was pretty psyched on the Z4s when they first came out, but I've seen just a few too many of them mangled by falls--specifically the smallest dual-axle ones. They don't seem to be as durable as their competitors.

Anything is better than nothing. 

I picked up both BD Z4 and WC Zero Friends in 0.1 and 0.2 and I like them both. Next sizes up I have a black (somewhere between BD 0.2 and 0.3 size) and blue Totem (~BD 0.3 size) which obviously rock, as well as a 0.3 Z4 which has a great trigger feel but the lobes do have some thin spots which I could see getting bent like others have reported (I haven't whipped on it). I also have the Z4 offsets and despite the squishy trigger feel, they seat really well in irregular granite cracks and inspire a lot of confidence, even the 0.1/0.2 and 0.2/0.3 sizes.

Comparison of 0.2 and under: 

Placing/feel: Trigger feel is better on the WC ZF, a tad squishy on the BD Z4. BD Z4 is easier to place due to the rigidflex system (it's not a gimmick) and the WC ZF is a bit floppier, sometimes folding to one side depending how you pull the trigger.
Walking: WC ZF is bendier and has built-in extendable sling so it stays put a little better than the Z4.
Range: WC ZF has a larger camming angle so the trade-off is a bit more range for a little less holding force (on paper). The greater range allows more movement before it becomes undercammed, so I see it as a plus. All microcams have tiny ranges tho, so it's splitting hairs.
Durability: WC ZF is all metal and feels more durable to me, especially being loaded over an edge. Both are still going strong tho, but I have no whips on either. 

Can't go wrong with Totems but they aren't tiny. Hard to recommend the Z4 or ZF over each other, try them both? Z4 offsets are great. 

I just got a .1 z4 in the mail to replace my purple c3 that I sold a couple weeks ago.... I would highly prefer the purple c3 again. The trigger action on this z4 is awful and the lobes are not even close to being aligned with each other lol. 

I have the two smallest Metolius Ultralights, .2 Z4, and black totem. I have to say as others have said the trigger actiion on the Z4 sucks. The UL Master cams are great though, and can't go wrong with the black totem. 

Advise z4s l, they rock

I just got the #1 Dragonfly in and it's exactly what I'm looking for. Would highly recommend for this specific application.