Leading ice with the same tools as for dry tooling

Anyone ever broken a shaft or head on an ice tool?  I know technically the advice is not to lead bigger more adventurous ice climbs on the tools you dry tool with but I'm curious if just taking newer picks would eliminate 99% of the risk us using tools that you also dry tool with or if people are breaking heads or shafts on tools that have been torqued on a ton?

I’ve cracked the heads on my old Top Machines, which at the time were used for both interchangeably, but it was likely due to fatigue rather than one torque event and not much fatigue difference between ice and dry (slight bit extra leverage transferred to the head overall with dry, but don’t think it’s much of a factor)

Lots of  variables involved, but in my opinion I wouldn’t worry about separating tools for ice vs dry.  Picks are the obvious issue.  

 Use the best tools you have for the climb, Inspect your tools before the climb, and climb on. 

My understanding is that it is uncommon for shafts and heads to fail catastrophically.  If you aren't doing competition style moves, like dropping onto a stein pull (shock loading the head and shaft) and you aren't particularly heavy (<80 Kg), I think the risk is relatively small, unless there are known design / manufacturing flaws.  It might be worthwhile to contact the tool manufacturer to ask them this question, as they are probably the only ones that might be able to give you a definitive answer for the particular tools that you are using.  

It's also worth noting that there are some substantial differences in head and shaft design that may make some models more susceptible to failure than others.  There is no universal standard for designing against fatigue failure and the manufacturers don't advertise how they design for fatigue.  Some tools may not designed for the forces involved in hard drytooling.  

If money is not an issue, having two sets of tools with different picks is probably a worthwhile investment, both for convenience and peace of mind.    

A V wrote:

that gave me enough pause to dedicate my nomics to drytool only - since one of them has developed a head wobble from drytooling and I don't want my tool exploding mid-lead like it did for him. 

What drytooling routes are you climbing that broke the head of one of your Nomics?  Are you sure it isn't the same head wobble that lots of older generation Nomics get, even just from ice climbing?  It seems unlikely that drytooling is significantly harder on tools than ice climbing, until you get to grades where you are doing figure-4s off torquey jams or something.

OP, I use the same tools for dry tooling and ice climbing.  Not only do I not think it's a problam (I don't think M4-8 drytooling is significantly harder on the tools than ice climbing), I also have no means or interest in buying another complete set of ice tools just for scratching around.  And, the best routes have ice and mixed on them anyway.

Sorry, I worded that poorly, I understand that we are talking about two different failures.

Be aware that the Nomic head wobble also happens to tools that have only been used for ice climbing.  Was Chris's tool that had the head fall off a Nomic too?

If people want to have a second set of tools for drytooling, that's totally fine and reasonable.  However, I think we shouldn't pretend that its a necessity, any tool that might explode due to climbing an M9 is a tool I don't want in my hand on a committing alpine route, regardless of grade.

Kyle Tarrywrote:

Sorry, I worded that poorly, I understand that we are talking about two different failures.

Be aware that the Nomic head wobble also happens to tools that have only been used for ice climbing.  Was Chris's tool that had the head fall off a Nomic too?

If people want to have a second set of tools for drytooling, that's totally fine and reasonable.  However, I think we shouldn't pretend that its a necessity, any tool that might explode due to climbing an M9 is a tool I don't want in my hand on a committing alpine route, regardless of grade.

precisely why Nomics are a no-go

Im 185 pounds and I lead ice with the same ergonomics i use for double digit drytooling and abusive mountain mixed climbing. Never had any problems or concerns 

I’ve had a pair of first generation Nomics that I’ve used for drytooling since they were released. They’ve taken serious abuse and are still fine. They are my dedicated drytooling tools now as I have a set of third gen Nomics for pure ice and alpine now. 

You can use an ice tool (Petzl, Cassin, Black Diamond) for drytool or a Dry Tool (Krukonogi, ASPEED) for ice based on preference and what sort of routes yer doing of course after market picks (Krukonogi,Steinle) make ice tools drytool much better...