Dangerous Biners

Please: TOP-ROPE ON YOUR YOUR OWN GEAR! This should be a no brainier, but from the looks of many of the anchor biners on Mt Lemmon, people either don't care or don't know any better. These biners are probably good for a while, but who knows, and who would feel good if they killed someone lowering them off of $12 worth of gear? Luckily these, pulled off of Cornickopia at the Chessman on Lemmon, didn't have sharp edges...yet. Throw some links and/or anchor biners in your pack so they're in there if you ever come across something like this; steel biners last much longer and can be purchased with a keeper pin to reduce them "walking" off. And CHECK THE ANCHOR before you even think about lowering off it.

Those don't look that bad to me. I can probably find some on my regular QDs nearly as bad. I WOULD replace them pretty quick, but I wouldn't sweat it much.

Yeah jbak they are probably ok. But when the grooves start to eat into the outer, wider ribbed section on many biners, the chance of creating a sharp ridge goes up and that gives me the heebies

A truly sharp edge changes the calculation for sure !

jbak xwrote:

Those don't look that bad to me. I can probably find some on my regular QDs nearly as bad. I WOULD replace them pretty quick, but I wouldn't sweat it much.

This misses the point as to how it got to that and what the logical conclusion of the continuation of this practice leads to.

I wonder if those biners got grooved just from lowering and not from someone top roping. It is a very dusty environment, and most people don't keep their ropes clean.

Franck Veewrote:

This misses the point as to how it got to that and what the logical conclusion of the continuation of this practice leads to.

You are asking a question that can't be answered. If the climb is popular, simply lowering will do it.

jbak xwrote:

You are asking a question that can't be answered. If the climb is popular, simply lowering will do it.

I wasn't asking a question - I'm just saying your comment (that those look fine to you) is missing the point. The point is not their current state or weather or not you'd keep using them personally. The point is that (according to OP) people top-roping cause premature use of those. Continuing that use would increase that trend.

Whether or not you agree that top-roping caused that, or if you think that simple lower at the end of the climb caused it, is another matter. My experience of using the same belaying/rap biner for like 8 years of heavy use, both indoors & outdoors, and never getting to a groove that was even close to that, would lead me to believe that a single lower at the end of each "party" climbing the route would need quite some years to get to that point. An ethical use of that biner would be something like TRing on one's own draw/belay setup, and lowering of one's own draw (if more than one person leading the route). I'm guessing some people probably TR directly off it, which is bad. Some people probably just lower off those even if they don't clean the route (which slightly less bad, but imo adding your own draw for those lower isn't asking that much either).

It’s definitely possible to groove aluminum biners just by lowering. 

It’s also possible that those biners were already grooved when they were donated to the anchor. 

Flipping them both upside down before lowering will prolong their usefulness, but replacement with steel biners or mussys would be ideal. 

I don't see the Chessman getting enough traffic to have caused this from merely lowering of the last climber (Mt Lemmon does not see that many climbers on it day to day, for you non-locals). If they were already grooved, that would definitely change the story. But I'd hazard to guess, as I posted initially, that crews are toproping--as I've witnessed them doing many times--off of the fixed gear...

The bigger question is... What do we do about crag maintenance ? Espec in light of the fact that many crags are in wilderness. I don't have an answer so I just do stuff by myself. Occasionally people donate hardware.or do trail work, but it's rare.

A few thoughts.

To me those are fine still... if you worry about their remaining lifespan I am happy to throw them up on the anchor of something that will rarely get repeated :)

Lowering could for sure cause that, look at your rap device biner... mine has grooves (and I just switched my locking biner a few months ago, and don’t rap that much and it already has measurable grooves.

Chessmen area probably sees at least 100 parties a year based on how often we see cars in the pullout.

Regarding mantienence, lots of people really like the clip and lower style anchor (I still find chain just as easy), but if we want to have clip anchors then people beyond the usual suspects (jbak, efr, Luke, ect) need to do their part by swapping worm out biners.

Finally, as we assess the damage that climbs took in the fire there is going to be much more maintenance to be done than normal... lend a hand if you can, throw down some $$$, or even just throw some new biners on a route that needs them.

Oh and TR through your own gear!