Edelrid Slider Issues.

Just a PSA - The other day I was clipping into an anchor with my Edelrid Pure Slider and the sliding mechanism fell out of the top of the gate - I realized later that the pin (see top photo) that is supposed to keep the sliding mechanism in had fallen out at some point. Thus my locking carabiner was now a non-locker.  I contacted Edelrid and their extremely lackluster response led me to believe that this is a very common issue. Edelrid did not ask for a batch number, for me to send the carabiner in for inspection, offer any explanation or even say "sorry our gear fell apart on you".  What they did say was "Warranty has denied your claim and you should buy another carabiner from us". 

Pretty disappointing as I liked the sliding mechanism and thought Edelrid was a better company than that.  Needless to say I have declined to purchase any more Edelrid gear. 

Anyway, those with Slider-type carabiners should inspect them to make sure that little pin hasn't fallen out. 

Graham, you might e-mail this info, with photos, to the UIAA: safetylabel (at) theuiaa.org 

The UIAA is likely to take it seriously and contact Edelrid to ensure an investigation of this safety issue. As you probably know, the UIAA has a lot of clout in Europe. Edelrid and other European manufacturers' business depends on their good status and the UIAA Safety Label. A few days ago, I forwarded info on another carabiner defect. Within hours, I received replies from the UIAA in Switzerland and Grivel in Italy, eager to investigate and analyse the carabiner.  https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/119487721/carabiner-damage

Edited 9-7-2020 to add: Since I am already in contact with the UIAA Safety Label admin, I forwarded this forum thread to the UIAA.

Thanks! 

Thanks for the heads up too. I have a bunch of these and love em, but would love them much less if the locking mechanism fell out:-) 

Ryan Tilley (a guide who make youtube videos) also had this issue with the sliders:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=utIncRdPuH4&t=18m16s

Hi Graham,

Thank you for posting about your experience with Edelrid.  I work for the brand and do apologize that the response and customer service you received was not positive.  We absolutely strive to provide best in class customer service and I would love the opportunity to speak with you directly.  I'll contact you directly via MP to continue our discussion. 

I too have had problems with slider where its mechanism stops working smoothly after about a year.  In some sense this is worse in that the gate does not close reliably so instead of being clipped it with at least a normal carabineer your are clipped in with an open gate.  Lubing the mechanism help but not enough and not long enough.

I love the concept but the implementation leaves much to be desired.

Just another FYI:  Had a nice chat with Blair today - he assured me that this is a very rare issue and that Edelrid is taking it seriously. 

Blairwilliams Williamswrote:

Hi Graham,

Thank you for posting about your experience with Edelrid.  I work for the brand and do apologize that the response and customer service you received was not positive.  We absolutely strive to provide best in class customer service and I would love the opportunity to speak with you directly.  I'll contact you directly via MP to continue our discussion. 

Thank you Blair. Folks here younger than I might not know that Edelrid invented the kernmantel ropes we know today that are mfg by 20 plus companies or so, or that they were a massive improvement over what we use to have (goldline or manila). Your products have never let me down over the 47 years I've been climbing and hopefully they never will, but regardless, thanks for addressing this issue. 

The slider mechanism needs more attention to being cleaned and lubed than most biners (although I have yet to do either but haven'tr climbed in snow and ice yet with them), but it's an awesome design. Hopefully this is a rare event. 

I had an issue with the spoc from Edelrid and contacted customer service. They did get back to me, but it went to my spam folder so I didn't see it. By that time my bf had posted about it here to warn others of the issue. I was then contacted by Blair too and he went over how I was using it, etc. They ended up sending me different carabiners that he thought would prevent the issue happening again and a replacement spoc. An engineer was supposed to get in contact w my bf regarding the product, however that was months ago and nobody ever did get in contact w him sooooo idk how seriously that issue was taken aside from maintaining positive customer service reviews. I hope something does end up happening in regards to improvement of sorts to this particular carabiner aside from assurance that it's being taken seriously.

Shoot, I’m on year 4ish of several Sliders, without issue...the times I’ve worked with Edelrid they’ve been awesome, surprised you didn’t get a satisfactory response first go...anyway, hope it sorts out for you! 

Firstly, I love the ‘biner for GriGri’s because you can rotate the locker 360 degrees, reducing cross-loading & other jamming issues.

Secondly, I just had the same thing happen with the pin, but now I still have a sweet, little-worn stiff gate regular ‘biner!

It’s hard to complain from here - the locker lasted like 3 years of heavy use.

I had 2 pure slider biners (used mostly belaying at the gym) fall apart. Both were replaced by Edelrid under warranty but their response surprised me to say the least - "No known issues. It’s a movable part that sometimes just comes out. "

Weird on the Sliders...I"ve got three in circulation that I've had for 4+ years ... zero drama!

I use sliders for anchor building, pas, prussik, and a number of other things. They all started to jam up after a year or so, but a drop of bike chain lube cleared it up and they are like new again. No issues at all. Except I stopped using them for my Grigri because other people always questioned whether or not it was a real locker. IMO it's bomber but I could tell people who weren't familiar with it didn't trust it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I had the exact same issues back in 2016, with the HMS version of this carabiner (exact same mechanism). And I received a similar disappointing response. 

Even back then, they acknowledged that it was a known problem, with multiple instances ("Indeed I have heard of a detaching slider only very few times before"). They also have apparently been aware of the problem since at least 2014 (based on comments in their email). 

They refused to issue a recall, or a notice or warning of any sort. 

I've pasted a screenshot of one of their emails below, with several key parts highlighted. 

They did not consider it a big deal because, in their words, "even with the broken slider, the karabiner will still close properly and have full strength, therefore there is no immediate risk to the climber.". 

I realize this is an old thread, something just reminded of this so I googled out of curiosity to see if there had been any developments. 

Mistakes happen, that in and of itself isn't a deal breaker, but I considered their response reckless and despicable. Bottom line for me is, I do not trust this company in the least, I think it's a sleazy and dishonest company that does not take the safety of its customers seriously. I will never buy another edelrid product (barring some major changes, starting with a recall, apology, and commitment to change their values and approach to safety..), and I urge others not to either. 

Graham Johnsonwrote:

Just another FYI:  Had a nice chat with Blair today - he assured me that this is a very rare issue and that Edelrid is taking it seriously. 

They are lying. Or at least ignorant and incompetent to the point of negligence. 

As described in my post above, there had already been multiple reports of this issue back in 2016. I don't know how many reports they had received, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say it was only two- then my report would have been three. 

So at a bare minimum, three separate reports of this same failure was not enough for them to issue a recall. Adding your experience, and the others described in this thread, I would hardly consider this a rare incidence. 

Perhaps this company is so disorganized or reckless that they don't keep records of this sort of thing, and the person you spoke with was genuinely unaware of the previous known incidents. In that case it wouldn't be lying explicitly. That's the most generous thing we can say about this company. But that is hardly exculpatory. 

The way this company has handled this product defect is utterly inexcusable, irresponsible, and unethical. It makes me wonder what other defects or safety issues have been ignored. 

This company should not be trusted. 

Graham Johnsonwrote:

Just another FYI:  Had a nice chat with Blair today - he assured me that this is a very rare issue and that Edelrid is taking it seriously. 

I assure you they have not taken it seriously, and it's not all that rare. 

If they had taken it seriously, they would have issued a recall back in 2016, or 2014, if not sooner. 

damn y'all are dramatic. it's a carabiner. I have a few of these and if the slider broke I would just use it as a non locker. I don't think it's reckless or disorganized of them at all to warranty them when they break, which seems to be pretty rare because I know a bunch of people who use these and none of us have observed this.

Yukon Corneliuswrote:

damn y'all are dramatic. it's a carabiner. I have a few of these and if the slider broke I would just use it as a non locker. I don't think it's reckless or disorganized of them at all to warranty them when they break, which seems to be pretty rare because I know a bunch of people who use these and none of us have observed this.

I use locking carabiners in situations where a failure would be critical, where they are not redundant and that carabiner is the only thing between me and falling to my death. Otherwise I would not be using a locking carabiner. 

Things like belaying, rappelling, or my safety tether while I'm transitioning to rappel. 

And keep in mind, there are some situations where a critical carabiner is out of reach or even out of sight. 

Having that carabiner spontaneously become a nonlocker, without warning, is indeed a safety issue in my opinion. 

And the company is aware that this is a known issue with this product, and they chose to withhold this information from customers.

Yukon Corneliuswrote:

damn y'all are dramatic. it's a carabiner. I have a few of these and if the slider broke I would just use it as a non locker. I don't think it's reckless or disorganized of them at all to warranty them when they break, which seems to be pretty rare because I know a bunch of people who use these and none of us have observed this.

I've had one break mid-climb which was slightly annoying because I don't carry extra lockers. But not a huge deal and I still use them.

It seems reasonable that they should be redesigned and recalled though. If a future failure results in an injury I would fully expect them to be successfully sued.