Renaming Negress Wall ORG

Can we rename this wall (the Negress wall) in the Owens River Gorge?.  Here is a link to a definition https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/negress.  The word is offensive by pretty much any standards.  The wall's name is an ethnic slur for black women.  This wall's name has always made me feel personally uncomfortable, and makes the gorge less welcoming and safe for POC.  

I think a good next step would be to sleuth out some of the first ascentionists and or a local climber coalition. 

And might as well rename the majority of the routes on that wall. Did you try to submit a suggestion via the “improve this page” link?

John Bowenwrote: Can we rename this wall (the Negress wall) in the Owens River Gorge?.  Here is a link to a definition https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/negress.  The word is offensive by pretty much any standards.  The wall's name is an ethnic slur for black women.  This wall's name has always made me feel personally uncomfortable, and makes the gorge less welcoming and safe for POC.  

I agree it should be changed and may make some POC feel uncomfortable but how would it make someone feel unsafe?  

Definitely should be changed, LONG past due!

We did an easy route there in 1997 that we were going to name a lighthearted name, but with the super offensive wall name we called the route Imprisoned Behind Lies. Here's what's in my notebook from 1997:

'Imprisoned Behind Lies' - aka 'Fun!' - Once they change the name of Negress Wall

Another one that really bothers me is in Golden Gate Canyon State Park in Colorado, "Lazy Squaw Spire" - definitely needs to be renamed. In that case, the name probably pre-dates climbing there (just a guess, don't know).

There's a theme there, I'd research the origins of the place if possible

John  do you intend to do anything more after asking this question, or are you asking for someone to take this up for you?

Since the person who shared the area to MP is deceased (RIP Blitzo), the MP Admins are the ones who can make the change. If you want the name changed “0n paper”, Marty Lewis would have the power to do that in the next edition of the guide. 

Perhaps this is a topic that could be addressed to the Bishop Climbers Coalition?

Thank you for bringing this up! I was shocked at the name of this wall last time I was at Owens. It definitely sends bad vibes to any POC climbing there. I think also worth discussing is some of the routes on the Great Wall of China, such as "Yellow Peril" and "Geisha Girl" with the "Happy Ending" extension (seriously...?). 

calvinowrote: John  do you intend to do anything more after asking this question, or are you asking for someone to take this up for you?

Thanks for the great advice all.  I posted this thread to see if there is a rough consensus or general opinion, as a lot of locals are on these forums.  Bishop has an excellent climbing community and I'm sure collectively we will be able to address these issues.  I'm talking with local leaders in the community about name changes.  I'd like to see the names change on Mountain Project, and eventually see them change in the guidebook with the new edition.  

Also not from the area at all but dang that needs to be changed, totally unacceptable.

After I posted on the site a series of questions, Russ Walling shares this insight:
The wall was named after the wife of Finn Newhouse, who was very much black and did lots of exploring around the area. She died in an abandoned mine shortly before the first routes went up on this wall. Her nickname was “Negress”, given to her by her husband. So I would imagine the naming is/was some sort of tribute?

This is a good reminder that these issues are much more complex than we realize. Perhaps something should be done to make this story more widely known?

Anna Janecekwrote: After I posted on the site a series of questions, Russ Walling shares this insight:
The wall was named after the wife of Finn Newhouse, who was very much black and did lots of exploring around the area. She died in an abandoned mine shortly before the first routes went up on this wall. Her nickname was “Negress”, given to her by her husband. So I would imagine the naming is/was some sort of tribute?

This is a good reminder that these issues are much more complex than we realize. Perhaps something should be done to make this story more widely known?

I did see this, maybe we could rename the wall more directly in her honor.

It's a nice story, but it doesn't change the fact that the name has racist connotations. I think the Black climbing community needs to be asked their opinion of the matter. 

LOL that the dudebros backyard crag from the lycra and cocaine era of the 80's didnt stand the test of time, who knew?

Some of the names in the ORG seem more appropriate to be scrawled on a urinal. Jenny He I never noticed or put 2 and 2 together on those routes on that wall, big oof. Sucks to our POC community to have that.

Now that my mind is wandering to other areas.... yeah we might have an issue with racially insensitive names on climbs, and actually on land masses in general, for like... hundreds of years. Should probably work on that...

With regards to route names, it seems awfully difficult to adjudicate intentional racism vs. uninentional racism vs. deliberate irony vs. slur reappropriation vs. complex story that doesn't fit into a single box. As a community we can't even agree on climbing ethics, let alone issues much more complicated than that.

Having said that, it seems like there is little downside to changing names. It's easy enough to change again in the future, as thinking and community consensus evolves. If names change too much, however, the whole purpose of naming routes will be rendered useless (eg to give people a common point of reference for a specific climb)

MPwrote: With regards to route names, it seems awfully difficult to adjudicate intentional racism vs. uninentional racism vs. deliberate irony vs. complex story that doesn't fit into a single box. As a community we can't even agree on climbing ethics, let along issues much more complicated than that. 

The intentionality doesn’t seem like it needs delving into, it should probably just be changed in this case. We’ve all said/done stupid things but we can do better going forward. The history of the name is interesting for sure but the hurr hurr wink and nod naming isn’t a good deal. We need to make this cut and dry, not a defense of shit that wasn’t funny to begin with.

Impact over intent 

Dave K wrote: The guy that named routes Geisha Girl and Shogun in the area named Great Wall of China should be ashamed on so many levels.

That's funny!

Not Hobo Greg wrote:

So if someone says “thank you” but I interpret it as “fuck you” then they’re the ones who are wrong?

That's not what he's saying. Your interpretation is such a black and white way of thinking about this issue. "Negress" is very likely to be offensive to many people without the context (and probably still with the context), but how many people are actually going to misinterpret thank you to mean fuck you? Come on, you can do better than that.

So why not just rename it the "_________ Newhouse Memorial Wall" ?