Anyone can climb V10/5.14-

I agree with that. I think the main point they were making is that you don't have to be particularly genetically gifted to achieve those grades. I think a lot of people count themselves out from being part of a group that could ever achieve that. 5.14a isn't even really an elite grade at this point (particularly if you live in a place like Boulder) .. If we were talking about 14d or 15a then perhaps you start to weed out those that didn't start climbing as a child on a youth team or those with crazy potential (climbing 5.12 and above in their first few months)
Consider what grade you could climb given 3, 6 or 9 days of effort on it. I don't think they ever mentioned something about climbing 14a without really fucking wanting it. So that eliminates probably 95% of climbers right there. It's totally fine not to want it though. Just don't let yourself have that excuse. 

Yes, anyone with a little training the right diet some rest could jump on a Moto GP bike and compete with Valentino Rossi. I mean he's 40 years old he can't even win anymore he only rides at a V10/5.14 level anymore anyhow. 

I've climbed a few V10's and i don't train whatsoever.  I cannot envision a world where i'd climb a 5.14 without busting my ass hard.
Note:  I've been climbing for 26 years and i think having started as i entered puberty helped me develop a deep finger strength that i can maintain and or recover quickly after injuries.

Should probably read: a climber of average genetics can attain the level of V10/5.14-. But "athletic disposition" could mean above average genetics.

For 5.12 I think most people are capable of reaching it. Above that it would take some analysis to see what the limiting factors are. Are you heavy framed? What is your finger strength and what are the factors in that (finger length, tendon insertion points, finger thickness)(some kids with no training can hang on tiny crimps and they maintain that for years, some people start much weaker and may never get to that level)? What's your ratio of fast twitch vs. slow twitch muscle? How far can your reach? How high can you high step?

Short Fall Seanwrote: The denial of genetic variation by basically everyone involved in climbing training is dazzling. It seems nothing matters except the nebulous "try harder". 

It is quite common for people with significant natural ability to fail to understand what it is like not to have that. Many, many years ago I tried to take up guitar. I had good instruction, a good book, a good instrument, and no manual dexterity to go with it. I stayed in the first five pages of the book and made no progress at all. I later realized that my lack of manual dexterity crossed over to typing and several other things. Lots of people told me it was easy. It was not, and those who were best at it couldn't understand why not everybody could do it. 

It is a lack of introspection that causes this. I have talents that not everyone shares, and I have weaknesses that not everyone shares. It's the way we are. Fortunately I was good enough at climbing that my ability matched my aspirations. It was not that way with guitar, and even typing this is kind of annoying. The number of times I backspace and correct would surprise you!

So no, not everyone is going to be ale to climb V10/5.14.

Spencer Cwrote:Also, I'm dabbling in v7 climbing now but my hardest roped climb is still .12a trad.. who are these people that their rope grade is actually on par with their bouldering grades?

I am. V5/dabbing V6, and 12+/trying 13. You climb what you train. If you are mostly boulderer, and an occasional rope climber, your bouldering grades would be higher than rope grades. If you try hard/project repeatedly when bouldering, but go with the do-it-once-and-move-on attitude when you get on the rope, you will have the discrepancy.

But I don't think Power company podcast says that every V10 boulderer also climbs 5.14, when they are talking about 'everyone climbing v10/5.14. They are just picking an equivalent high number grde to make a point, not saying that both of those go hand-in-hand always. Every V10 boulderer has a great chance of climbing 5.14, but many people just boulder, and don't care for rope climbing.

For every person like that, there is also 1,000 people with that same character that will never make it. Not to mention the injuries can seriously slow people down, and so can illnesses.

Luckily we're not talking about becoming a professional climber here. If you had the right mind set and didn't "make it" in this case, would you get to 13c or b? and would that still be awesome? probably, and yes- yes it would.

I wonder what the distribution of maximal grades across genetic potentials would look like. I have a feeling it would have a peak in the distribution closer to 5.13+ or 5.14- rather than 5.12 like some are suggesting. I think most of us will never really come close to that limit however. We'll probably be lucky to get to 75 or 80%. which is where all of our current max grades come from, haha. 

For example: I will never climb a difficult stem corner like Tainted Love in Squam, since my hips simply do not and never will move that way (I have had surgery on one and need surgery on the other). That being said, I could better imagine one day climbing an enduro route like Omaha Beach since it caters to strengths and would "only" require training up an elite level of fitness to be able to pull 130 feet of overhanging v4/5 moves. 

And sounds like you've got a nice route picked out. I wouldn't call that a degree of fortune or luck though. Sounds like it would involve smart planning, training, and picking long enduro routes that built up to something like Omaha Beach.  

Frank Steinwrote: So, working from home, I've been tearing through the Power Company podcast, and in an older episode from May 2017 the panel is in consensus that given an athletic disposition, and adequate training, time, diet and rest, any average climber can attain the level of V10/5.14-. Obviously these guys have some experience with training weekend warrior type climbers, so what do you think? Makes me feel like a weak, lazy chuffer...Which I am.

Seems like the key phrase here is "given an athletic disposition".  There are many "fit" people who don't have the right metabolism/skeletal structure/collagen to jump to monopockets on a 35 degree overhanging wall all day.  Unfortunately physiology isn't equitable.

i feel like i had to sell my soul to satan to claw my way up a few 13a's. i honestly can't imagine myself ever climbing 14a. i think i was a pretty decent athlete growing up, but who knows. a lot of athletic people have never been athletes.

abandon moderation wrote: I've heard 5.12 as the level that anyone can attain with dedicated training (from Eric Horsts book). That seems reasonable, even if you're not a naturally talented climber, you can probably claw your way there.

5.14? Nah. For sure there are people who *could* climb 5.14 that *won't* but that's elite level athlete, which just isn't in everyone's genetic potential.

I’d say that these days “elite” level starts around 14d/9a, at least in sport climbing. So, .14-/8b+? Mediocre for sure, and perhaps even average. 

Keith Woodwrote:

It is quite common for people with significant natural ability to fail to understand what it is like not to have that. Many, many years ago I tried to take up guitar. I had good instruction, a good book, a good instrument, and no manual dexterity to go with it. I stayed in the first five pages of the book and made no progress at all. I later realized that my lack of manual dexterity crossed over to typing and several other things. Lots of people told me it was easy. It was not, and those who were best at it couldn't understand why not everybody could do it. 

It is a lack of introspection that causes this. I have talents that not everyone shares, and I have weaknesses that not everyone shares. It's the way we are. Fortunately I was good enough at climbing that my ability matched my aspirations. It was not that way with guitar, and even typing this is kind of annoying. The number of times I backspace and correct would surprise you!

So no, not everyone is going to be ale to climb V10/5.14.

Funny that you mention guitar. I'm a decent guitar player (probably about as good as I am a climber - say a 12b/c redpoint guitarist) and I've tried to teach a few beginners to play. A couple of them were so magnificently lacking in talent that I could hardly believe it. They just had no sense of rhythm, no dexterity, a terrible ear for what they were playing or listening to. They didn't last long at practicing. Those experience are part of what informed some of my opinions about talent and potential. Like even if those people maybe had the physical potential to become an acceptable campfire strummer if they reeeally worked at it, who is going to continue to put in the effort when the gains come so slowly that they are imperceptible? Natural talent begets quick progression which begets a doubling down on effort. Stagnation can only be overcome by the most stubborn and dogged, and even then we have a way of scoffing at the person who works "too hard" for their skill level. Any 5.10 climber who is busting their ass and trying to find the perfect training plan to reach 5.11 gets told to "just climb more" by people who undoubtedly progressed quicker and more easily. 

slimwrote: i think i was a pretty decent athlete growing up, but who knows. a lot of athletic people have never been athletes.

What was your sport(s)? I've never been an athlete; and it actually annoys me to be around them b/c I have a strong aversion to train & be fit like one :) I do have respect for them though. Maybe if mid-life crisis ever hits...

slimwrote:  a lot of athletic people have never been athletes.

slim, I'm curious what you mean by that. Can you elaborate? 

CrimpDaddy WesPwrote: IMHO most of the reason people cant climb V10 or 5.14 is because they aren't trying hard. Trying hard when climbing, when training, or just in general. Even if you have an hour a day, these things are way possible. But, I will say getting there is probably a lot more fun if you have a good gym and some free time on your hands. Not that I've climbed 5.14. But I can see how it is possible. 

LOL.

Less than 0.1% of climbers can climb 5.14-...

This is like saying "anyone" can run a sub 2:15 marathon (or comparable 1/10,000 or 1/100,000 level of athletic achievement).

It is patently false no matter how much "trying hard" is applied.

You cannot try hard and throw a 95mph fastball. It is a gift from birth like all similar elite level athletic achievements that start with genetic gifts and then take a lifetime of dedicated training to achieve.

Next up, anyone can be Usain Bolt and run a sub 10 second 100 meters will also be touted by personal trainers with a vested interest in giving you unrealistic expectations.

This is also why you shouldn't revere 5.14 climbers. They are otherwise completely ordinary humans, other than having really, really strong fingers in proportion to their weight. Jeez just consider their taste in music :P.

i have met many people over the years with no athletic background who impressed me quite a bit.

one example would be my friend shane. the only exercise i ever saw him do was 12 oz curls and 6 foot bong deadlifts. guy was so pale he put on spf 50 3 times a day and would still get burnt in the dead of winter.

when we would go backcountry skiing or peak bagging, i could not keep up for the life of me. and this was when i really trained a lot.  the guy did all 5 peaks in the crestones in a day. in fucking birkenstocks!!!  wtf? man, he wrecked my friend's girlfriend (who was tough as owl shit) that day. he forgot his food that day so he ate some snowballs and pretended they were food.

the first time he ever went climbing he lead a crimpy ass 10b sport rout at the end of the day and took a big whip. totally no big deal to him. he had borrowed a pair of shoes that were so big he looked like ronald mcdonald.

and i have met a bunch of folks like him. for example, the gal who looked like the bumblebee girl in the blind meon video. she could crush v10 in the gym all evening.

one thing about climbing, you cant really judge a book by it's cover.

Less than 0.1% of climbers can climb 5.14-..

While 8a.nu has a bias for stronger climbers globally, this 2018 data would suggest 6% of so of climbers currently can climb 14a. (not taking into account those who could with years of work, but have not yet achieved this) 

Steve Guardwrote:
While 8a.nu has a bias for stronger climbers globally, this 2018 data would suggest 6% of so of climbers currently can climb 14a. (not taking into account those who could with years of work, but have not yet achieved this)

Complete BS data.

Steve Guardwrote:
While 8a.nu has a bias for stronger climbers globally, this 2018 data would suggest 6% of so of climbers currently can climb 14a. (not taking into account those who could with years of work, but have not yet achieved this)

But, that data only represents around 70,000 climbers.  Given that millions of people rock climb...well...you can do the math.

And certainly, people who use/post on 8a.nu are probably yard stickin' themselves and are higher end climbers anyhow.  Ie, not average climbers.

hillbilly hijinkswrote: Complete BS data.

Why?  I used to run, but met perhaps one runner who could come close to a 2:15 marathon (per your earlier analogy). However, I personally know more climbers than I can shake a stick at who sent low 5.14 or V10, or harder. 

abandon moderation wrote:

You sure your local crags aren't just soft?   

I propose a different data set: The number of climbers who have climbed any of the 5.14s on El Cap

Soft as a baby’s bottom :-)