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Where to find data on C4 rubber physical properties
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Found both of these rubber data sheets which are really cool to compare numbers between Unparallel Sports rubber and Vibrum, but I would like to compare these two to various 5.10 compounds. Specifically C4 Stealth |
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My understanding is that Five Ten has a patent on the name C4 but that UP uses the same compound |
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When Five Ten was bought by Adidas they also bought the name C4. They didn't, however, buy the formula for the rubber, which was known only to the employees at the time. I believe that formula left when those employees left and possibly made it's way to UP. |
Andrew Yasso wrote: When Five Ten was bought by Adidas they also bought the name C4. They didn't, however, buy the formula for the rubber, which was known only to the employees at the time. I believe that formula left when those employees left and possibly made it's way to UP. That’s the word from the two 5.10 engineers I know that left and now help run UP. Really happy so far with the models I’ve purchased from them. |
D Elliot wrote: Thanks! |
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Doesn’t climb and wear like C4 |
Karl Walters wrote: Doesn’t climb and wear like C4 Which one Karl? The chart has 5 different rubbers. |
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UP RS and RH do not climb like HF and C4. |
Karl Walters wrote:The biggest clue is when you open the boxes of each shoe and the UP stuff smells super strong like some sort of chemicals. Or you just climb in the same shoe back to back Ah yes the biggest clue of chemical smell, all things we smell are chemicals. Semantics aside id imagine you’re smelling the adhesive any way. |
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So I've climbed on both brands' shoes back-to-back in similar models (Hiangle vs. Regulus, Dragon vs. Sirius). They are close, but there are certain cases where the UP rubber seemed to not hold shittier smears well. I noticed it in Font in which I could stick feet in my busted to hell old Dragons that I couldn't in a fairly new Sirius. As for C4 vs the RH, it wasn't quite as stark and coulda been in my head. |
Karl Walters wrote: So I've climbed on both brands' shoes back-to-back in similar models (Hiangle vs. Regulus, Dragon vs. Sirius). They are close, but there are certain cases where the UP rubber seemed to not hold shittier smears well. I noticed it in Font in which I could stick feet in my busted to hell old Dragons that I couldn't in a fairly new Sirius. As for C4 vs the RH, it wasn't quite as stark and coulda been in my head. Maybe your old shoes are just broken in? Seems helpful in font |
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I don't know anything about this other than Charles Cole's father told me he had been a Goodyear rubber chemist, and he developed the rubber. |
Karl Walters wrote: So I've climbed on both brands' shoes back-to-back in similar models (Hiangle vs. Regulus, Dragon vs. Sirius). They are close, but there are certain cases where the UP rubber seemed to not hold shittier smears well. I noticed it in Font in which I could stick feet in my busted to hell old Dragons that I couldn't in a fairly new Sirius. As for C4 vs the RH, it wasn't quite as stark and coulda been in my head. Thank you Karl! As I have absolutely zero knowledge on it, I appreciate your report. I noticed that putting a shoe with Vibram Edge on my right foot and an Evolv Trax rubber shoe on the left led to me rearranging my thinking on Vibram rubber on Granite. Previous, I thought it lagged in performance to the Evolv: afterwards, I knew that it held it's own and in fact had a slight edge on smears that had a near invisible microedge. Oh, it's super close though. Tommy Caldwells later performance on world class valley climbs reinforced that view. At this point, it's so minimal for me that I could go either rubber and haven't resoled any evolv shoes with the Vibram, but it's slight and it's real. I've got 4 pairs of shoes that need resole at some point, not sure where they are going to go to or what to put on them. |
Andrew Yasso wrote: When Five Ten was bought by Adidas they also bought the name C4. They didn't, however, buy the formula for the rubber, which was known only to the employees at the time. I believe that formula left when those employees left and possibly made it's way to UP. that seems made up |
Daniel Roberts wrote: It's not. Heard the exact same thing from the horse's mouth (ie the guy who actaully made 5.10's climbing shoes), and from a long time developer of 5.10 shoes. |
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If the miniscule difference in rubber hardness is what's causing you to not send, then you need to get stronger. Sticky rubber is just that, sticky, the thickness and midsole flexibility is far more important than the chemical makeup. Especially when comparing something like UP to 5.10. Basically if your foot is slipping off a smear, press a little harder. |
Jon Frisby wrote: They both were adequately broken in. The Dragons were pretty bad shape and I brought them just so I could use them for circuits without caring. |
Evan Erwin wrote: If the miniscule difference in rubber hardness is what's causing you to not send, then you need to get stronger. Sticky rubber is just that, sticky, the thickness and midsole flexibility is far more important than the chemical makeup. Especially when comparing something like UP to 5.10. Basically if your foot is slipping off a smear, press a little harder. This was a climb absolutely at my limit regardless of shoe. Since I’m not a moron, when I did try back to back I did smear harder. To me the UP rubber feels like it deforms more when sticking and ends up rolling more. Almost like if you can imagine pressing into HF and it compresses a lot for the first half of the thickness then gets progressively harder, the UP rubber has a linear curve. Beyond that I’ve had just as many build issues with UP shoes and they’ve got some rather annoying design flaws IMO. I’m glad they’re on the market, but they’re not on par with the old Five Ten and no one I personally know that doesn’t get a discount has stuck with them. But those flaws are not related to rubber. |
