NC Table Rock Lightening ledge erosion.

Hi, I'm new to Mountain Project. Been climbing 30 yrs. and "cut my teeth" at Table rock. My partners and I climbed yesterday on Jim Dandy, etc. Did the Block to Lightening Ledge and WOW Lightening ledge is Hairy Scary to traverse and to top out on now! Alot of key Veggie and Trees that made for great natural pro were/are dead or missing. Landmarks that I always just Knew would be there were not! Any body got any idea if there will be a installment of say a via ferrata to fill in the gaps? Maybe just add a bolt to the 2 that are there now at said travere gap to protect? I like the history and full on nature of trad climbing in NC and would not want to upset that but...

Damn that’s what traffic gets you.  I would be against the vila Ferrari just cause it’s gonna cause more.

I would check with the CCC (Carolina Climbing Coalition) about bolting.  I suspect Table Rock might fall in the wilderness area meaning you can't bolt but I think there was some legislation that changed allowing for bolting.

Either way, it would be best to check with CCC and they could direct you best *Coughs, MP Users may not* 

1. To Carolina. Your post tag states "Front Range, NC" have you been on Lightening Ledge recently? I would consider you a "local". I am not. I travel from Knoxville, Tn. I remember conditions 30 yrs ago and have seen the change more pronounced due to me not having climbed there in about 8 years. I'm just making an observation of a possible need for trail/climbing route maintenance. There have been many a ppl climb this area for many a year. I myself have climbed Table Rock many times. I understand Traffic is one thing that is an issue, but this area has seen pine beetle blight, forest fires, lightening, etc. that have greatly affected the area. I was mostly asking for input from "locals" if they knew of any plans for trail improvements within this local climbing arena. The area I mentioned is a 20 foot gap moving (traverse) horizontally with 2 bolts insitu and the first (anchor) tree is now missing. A via ferrata may be a little much when one bolt would do. Go see for yourself, let know what ideas you may have and maybe we can bring it to the attention of the CCC? Thank you for your time.

2. To Gumby King. Maybe I was unclear. I'm not going to or ever bolt anywhere in NC! I am very respectful of the climbing areas history. I think my concerns and questions were very clear and the "but..." was a nod to safety. Have you been on Lightening Ledge recently? There are bolts in place already past where a tree was. Now that tree is gone making for what could be a very bad situation for someone. Thank you for your input. I was hoping for a member of CCC (Carolina Climbing Coalition) to possibly respond. Much like a fire in California can destabilizes the soil, followed by a rain, the trail washes away. I was mostly asking for input from "locals" if they knew of any plans for trail improvements within this local climbing arena.

Via Ferreta in NC will be the day. I believe Table Rock is perched above the wilderness designation.

As far as Table Rock trail days, there was one two years ago I couldn’t make. Next trail day on the docket is at the Bald (1/8 9am).

Perhaps contact Mike Trew, he’s the Linville rep. mtrew@carolinaclimbers.org, or Mike Reardon the ED mreardon@carolinaclimbers.org

Conor Mark, Thank you for your reply. I get the humor in your statement re: via farretas.

1. I've emailed the CCC with a reference to this Moutain Project and a copy of my original post. My use of the via farreta was just an example. Another example that I will also use is to possible close Lightning Ledge for access to the summit. I will also alert my "climbing family" in Knoxville,Tn the issue of erosion on L.L. and its increase risk of traversing said gap. Until I hear from the CCC on the matter, I certainly will not use L.L. to summit again as I feel it is not worth the risk to. I've been climbing long enough to know "When in doubt, Don't!" I'm just trying to be a good climbing steward. Thank you for your time.

Hey,Thank you Conor Mark for the contact info.

Sure thing!

Gumby King wrote:I would check with the CCC (Carolina Climbing Coalition) about bolting.  I suspect Table Rock might fall in the wilderness area meaning you can't bolt but I think there was some legislation that changed allowing for bolting.

Either way, it would be best to check with CCC and they could direct you best *Coughs, MP Users may not*

You know what, Fuck the ccc they are not the bolting police in the south yeast, they think they are, but they arent, I continue to be completely disgusted with them and feel they over step their bounds regularly, dispite trying to support them, showing up to trail days and events, donating money, i just cant any more. They can regulate the areas they own, but public property should fall into the hands of.... the public and people should be able to place reasonable protection for situations exactly like this.  This “organization” is starting to hinder my ability to grow as an independent climber with all the BS rules.  This organization needs some serious changes. It seems to be a systemic thing with them, i will catch hate for this comment but i know for sure there is a fairly sizeable group of people in similar shoes.  I just have the unique position of being a completely independet climber, i have no ties or alliances to any organization, climbing is not part of my work, nor do i hold any certifications.  Everything i say is based on my experiences alone.

Boltting in linville gorge is hand drill only no power tools!!

NC outward bound might be a better choice any way, i think they do some maintenance up on TR, but i dont know

I do NOT think via ferrata is a good idea, maybe add a bolt im not familiar with this area in particular so i cant comment directly.

The ccc will likely tell you that it was originally done without bolts therefore everyone that ever follows it must risk their life.
 But its national forest sooooo they have no power here but they will probably come chop yer bolt, they are usually the clowns out  Choppin, lame, super lame actually

Dont get me wrong they do good stuff too, but it is frequently overshadowed by the absolute crap.  Im also far from perfect but im an independent not an organization.

I encourage you to make a decision on your own and/or with a stronger/more experienced climber who knows the area well and be as respectful to the envronment as possible.  Please consider donating to a different organization and dont look to them for misguidance, YOUR safety does not need approval from them.

null. wrote:  This “organization” is starting to hinder my ability to grow as an independent climber with all the BS rules.  

I think some posters in this thread are uninformed about how close the USFS came to implementing a blanket bolting ban in the Linville Gorge. Were it not for Mr. Payst and the CCC making great efforts to reach out to the USFS and demonstrate for those officials the importance of fixed hardware, it would currently be illegal to not only add hardware, but also replace any hardware regardless condition or the tools used. We would also not have designated and recognized approach trails to Looking Glass and favorable concessions in the new Forest Plan were it not for such diplomatic efforts. Gone are the free for all days of yore. We are squarely on the radar now as a user group, and that is in many ways a good thing, like it or not. 

Hard to imagine anyone from the CCC chopping properly placed hardware. In the last 10 months alone, the CCC and it’s affiliates have raised thousands for bolt replacement and replaced hundreds of bolts this year all over the Carolinas.  

Many routes have been retro bolted in the Carolinas either by the first ascent party or with the FAist’s permission. The CCC does not regulate a first ascentionist’s decision making.

I would not imagine Outward Bound is going to foot the bill for fixed hardware on 50+ year old routes.

Regardless, the crux of the original post is that conditions up there might not be stable, bolts might not even address the issue.

Please donate and voulenteer! If that’s hard to stomach please donate indirectly to organizations like the Access Fund who help support these and other efforts in the Carolinas and abroad.

I just this minute received an email saying that in 2019 CCC volunteers replaced 531 bolts!

Never said they did all bad things. Dont put those words in my mouth, just how overshadowing a lot of their crap is.
Quite frankly i have had enough of them and will continue to bad mouth them, climbers should be more independent as a whole and rely on organizations less.  SELF RELIANCE.

Lets talk about how unprofessional the current head is, openly smoking while climbing.... in sc and nc where it is illegal. did you know you could do a night in jail for that? Fun.  How them drug tests at your job?
Yes i also smoke but im not in charge of jack shit all i wanna do is climb, call my boss he will blow a fat cloud in your face, all i wanna do is climb safely and this group is always the thorn in my side.

Bring it on lets drag people over the rocks i dont really have anything to loose i have intentionally picked this position maybe ill loose all my climbing partners, sick i love solo activites  ;)  ;) ;) :*
Xoxoxox

You seem pleasant. Have a name? 

Austin Goff wrote: You seem pleasant. Have a name? 

My name is kyle and i am tired of being told how to climb by this crappy organization. I should be in charge of my own safety as i see fit, as should every other climber

Generally i try my best to stay out of this stuff cause it is straight up not a good time but... i feel the need to make my opinion known at this juncture 

I don’t seem to remember a single time where the CCC told me how to climb. Sounds like this rainy weather has really got you down. 

Here are the CCC bolting policies.
https://carolinaclimbers.org/about-ccc/boltingpolicy.html 

I’ll also add that the CCC sucks off the MP administrators in the southyeast so they control what is posted here. Is it to sell more guidebooks???

Without an organized committee/rules/process, etc, there would be complete chaos and people (maybe like you Kyle, I don't know) would put bolts everywhere and just do whatever to routes as it pleases them in the moment.   Like that dumb double-piton midway anchor on Highwire at Moore's Wall.   U-G-L-Y and unnecessary.  Rules and governing might be annoying but they sure as hell provide order and thoughtfulness in society.   

Jcastleberry wrote: I’ll also add that the CCC sucks off the MP administrators in the southyeast so they control what is posted here. Is it to sell more guidebooks???

You mean having Stown taken off mtn project because the land owner asked for it to not be there? Guidebook is free online.