Mammut smart alpine problem lowering second in guide mode

I have a smart alpine I bought years ago and hadn't used for trad climbing before. I decided to take it out and found it super easy to belay my second in guide mode, but then at one point I had to lower him and ran into trouble. First off, it was a huge struggle raising the handle up enough to get it to lower. Then the rope got stuck. The rope to my second weighted pulled down next to the rope to my brake hand and wedged in next to it in a way that sucked. Has anyone had similar problems or a better experience with lowering a second in guide mode? Is the problem possibly the rope I was using? 

bearbreeder documented a few of the failure modes and their solutions a while back.   I am too lazy to search for the thread.

edit to add:  I believe Mammut documents a way to create a pulley with a high redirect in order to help raise the lever.   I am also too lazy to search for those instructions.

Were you using it according to the manual, or did you have it setup differently?

https://static.mammut.com/file/User_Manual_HI-MAM-018-4_SmartAlpine.pdf

I had pretty much the same experience with it, and after messing around with it for a while, I finally decided that it just doesn't work very good in general - not great for lead belays, not great for guide mode, not great for raps.  Now I only use it for top rope belays/lowers so that I dont put that wear on an ATC.

Drew Nevius wrote: We’re tou using it according to the manual, or did you have it setup differently?

https://static.mammut.com/file/User_Manual_HI-MAM-018-4_SmartAlpine.pdf

Yes. I looked up the manual just before going out to double check. I should have taken a picture to post, but in that moment I was kinda preoccupied with how the hell I was going to get my second back on the ground safely. 

chris p wrote:

Yes. I looked up the manual just before going out to double check. I should have taken a picture to post, but in that moment I was kinda preoccupied with how the hell I was going to get my second back on the ground safely. 

How is that different from any guide belay device?  Put the brake side on a munter hitch, release and restrain (if possible) the guide device, lower.

Sorry to be that guy but seems odd to blame the device for you going out climbing with it and not knowing how to use it.

Mark A wrote:

How is that different from any guide belay device?  Put the brake side on a munter hitch, release and restrain (if possible) the guide device, lower.

Sorry to be that guy but seems odd to blame the device for you going out not knowing how to use it.

It's isn't any different. I just looked it up to be sure because it's slightly different to use in the way you lower a second when top roping which is how I had used it in the past. 

If you are sorry to be that guy, then just don't be that guy. I'm not blaming the device, I'm asking if other people have had similar problems to try to figure out if maybe the rope and device make a bad pair, or if there is some other odd quirk I hadn't thought of.

It's very hard to give slack in guide mode.  Now if I know I'm going to need to give slack...I belay off the harness with a redirect.

The instructions show lowering using a redirected foot loop to get enough force.  That is a lot of rigging.

dumbest damn belay device ever invented. Huge, bulky, prone to multiple failure modes and sucks at everything. do the world a favor and throw it in the trash

Mine is for sale.  PM me if you want one.

Trade it in for a DMM Pivot which works quite well belaying from top or bottom, either 1 or 2 climbers, and lowers well.  BUT, not so good for rope diameters over 9.5mm.

Rad o Man should be here shortly to tell you how great the device is and how much you suck. 

chris p wrote: I have a smart alpine I bought years ago and hadn't used for trad climbing before. I decided to take it out and found it super easy to belay my second in guide mode, but then at one point I had to lower him and ran into trouble. First off, it was a huge struggle raising the handle up enough to get it to lower. Then the rope got stuck. The rope to my second weighted pulled down next to the rope to my brake hand and wedged in next to it in a way that sucked. Has anyone had similar problems or a better experience with lowering a second in guide mode? Is the problem possibly the rope I was using? 

Greg, you rang?!

Chris, if you know you are going to lower your second just set a "mini TR" and use in standard mode.

You can lower in guide mode, see directions posted but it's not as easy.

Your rope squeezed because the rope you are using is too skinny for it. There's two versions of the smart, get the "skinny" one unless you are using big ass ropes. I know the big one says it can handle down to...I don't recall the number...and it does but not very well.

The smart works great for me in all scenarios so it can't be the device, it must be the user. I have both versions but almost always use the skinny one, so maybe getting that one will help you.
Capisce?

Drew Nevius wrote: Were you using it according to the manual, or did you have it setup differently?

https://static.mammut.com/file/User_Manual_HI-MAM-018-4_SmartAlpine.pdf

wow, that looks like a whole lotta fucking around to do a really simple task...