Cross-loading with a grigri

Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote: "I need a $30 carabiner to belay someone..."

What's wrong with this picture?

Nothing?

Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote: If you really think that a Petzl GG needs a BD grid lock to work properly you need to look in the mirror and see where the error lies.

Or are you actually smarter than all the engineers at Petzl?

The thing about Hubris is that most are entirely unaware...

The thing about hubris is that most are entirely unaware.

Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote: "I need a $30 carabiner to belay someone..."

What's wrong with this picture?

Some people like ergonomic and efficient things. It's ok if people aren't the same as you.

Gear wanking is not climbing. There is nothing ergonomic or efficient about any "anti-cross loading" design.

Petzl Am'D or Sm'D (small hands) is perfectly designed for use with a GG.

Weird how Petzl doesn't make "anti-cross loading" belay carabiners, isn't it?

PWZ wrote:

Nothing?

Its a sad commentary on today's climber that they think spending more money makes them safer.

It's a sadder commentary that it matters to you how folks spend money. Or hell, how other folks climb.

PWZ wrote: It's a sadder commentary that it matters to you how folks spend money. Or hell, how other folks climb.

Not really. You see, people with experience that can see your folly are doing you a favor pointing out your shallow consumerism and attempts to compensate for lack of climbing judgment with money.

The sad thing is people caught up in that shit are blind to it.

Strange how the consumerist loves spending money on bad designs intended to exploit their lack of experience.

I’m not sad about any of this. Am I doing it wrong? F-ing lol!

I’d add something of more use but it’d probably just get ground up in the old online ego mill. 

Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote:

Not really. You see, people with experience that can see your folly are doing you a favor pointing out your shallow consumerism and attempts to compensate for lack of judgment with money.

The sad thing is people caught up in that shit are blind to it.

Strange how the consumerist loves spending money on bad designs intended to exploit their lack of experience.

Praise Jah that folks have you to look out for them.

Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote:

You see, people with experience that can see your folly are doing you a favor pointing out your shallow consumerism and attempts to compensate for lack of judgment with money.

Gimme a break. You just like feeling superior to other people by telling them they're doing something "wrong." Don't try to pretend you're being benevolent.

Abram Herman wrote:

Gimme a break. You just like feeling superior to other people by telling them they're doing something "wrong." Don't try to pretend you're being benevolent.

That's what teacher's do every day: Educate the newbies. Telling them they are wrong is just part of it.

Look, I get it: You don't like being told you have bought some over-hyped shit that you don't need.

But I am not here to sugar-coat facts for snowflakes. Time is short.

When Petzl makes an "anti-cross loading" belay biner it (may) be a thing and they'll have the data to back it up. Until then, its just other people trying to hype you into buying their shit instead of Petzl's perfectly fine carabiners.

As far as benevolence goes: Others in this thread have noted how much garbage is sold to paranoid and worried climbers without a shred of evidence it is required. The idea is to teach you something about not being overly dependent on gear and being more reliant on your own skill and judgment for your safety. This generation of climbers is gear dependent.

Alex Z wrote:

Interesting, I also own a spirit screw lock. Considering that Petzl makes the Attache, it's absence from these recommendations suggests that they shouldn't really be used with GriGris. Perhaps I should switch my attache for the spirit

Well Petzl do write:- "Beware of pear-shaped carabiners, which in this application have a tendency to rotate and often become poorly positioned."

David K wrote:

...and by doing so, you may have created a carabiner that's much more dangerous than a crossloaded carabiner...

I doubt it. I removed a very small amount of material and only from the flange part of the gate that's only purpose is to make it easier to open the gate. It's still very easy to open because I removed such a small amount of material.

I'm glad this devolved into an ideological fight; it wouldn't be a proper mountain project thread otherwise.

As Jim pointed out, pear-shaped biners are not advised for use with GriGri's. The Attache is pear-shaped which may have had something to do with the problems I was having. I believe a D shaped carabiner like the Am'd or Spirit should work fine with a GriGri.

However, I wanted to try out the twin gate locking mechanism and the Clepsydra looked DANK. Viva La Capitalism!

Tammy Gueterman wrote:

You do it in a way that is very impure and egotistical. Everyone can see it immediately even if they can't put it into words. Even when you're right, your lack of self awareness means people will never want to listen to you. You might think that's their loss, but you should care if you want to call yourself a teacher. If not, you're just a dude who knows things and wants to show how much he knows.

Nope. Plain straight dope. If you don't like it it's not my problem.

The gear wanking on this site by people with no experience or understanding is out of control.

Tammy Gueterman wrote:

Yeah that's my point, you just want to stick it to them. You have no interest in educating anyone so you can stop pretending.

Don’t distract him, he’s correcting the internet!

Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote: Gear wanking is not climbing. There is nothing ergonomic or efficient about any "anti-cross loading" design.

Petzl Am'D or Sm'D (small hands) is perfectly designed for use with a GG.

Weird how Petzl doesn't make "anti-cross loading" belay carabiners, isn't it?

What do you call the FRIENO? its listed as "anti rotation"

Harumpfster Boondoggle wrote: 
When Petzl makes an "anti-cross loading" belay biner it (may) be a thing and they'll have the data to back it 

They do

Its 50 dollars (more than the gridlock) its called the frieno and it actually geta crossloaded all the time hilariously. The redirection spur is useful for other purposes than anti rotation.

Rob warden The space lizard wrote:

What do you call the FRIENO? its listed as "anti rotation"

That is not its primary function but a consequence of the horn for more friction. Note there is no mention of it being used to belay with a GG.

"The Petzl Freino Z is an auto-locking carabiner with a brake spur for use with Stop and Simple caving descenders. The spur provides additional braking during the descent and facilitates creation of a tie-off. The rope can be quickly redirected over the friction spur and removed with one hand. The Freino Z can be rotated in order to make the descender loss-proof when transferred from gear loop to semi-circular carabiner. "

Petzl Freino: "This locking carabiner features a built in braking system for helping slow down descents while rappelling".

Colonel Mustard wrote:

Don’t distract him, he’s correcting the internet!