How do you do multiple redpoint attempts without going to the top?

For sport climbing I just pull the rope and have prehung draws for my next burn, no big deal. But when going for a trad lead redpoint and you fall, do you just have to go to the top anyway so you can clean your gear on lower/rappel before your next attempt? (a lot of effort, especially if you fall early in the pitch), pull the rope and have prehung gear for you next go? (lame) or lower on just one piece (back up with friction hitch on opposite rope) and have just one preplaced piece for you next attempt (less lame). other shenanigans?

So what do all you hard tradsters do after you fall? I am just starting to get into really pushing my limit while also wanting to get the redpoint.  

Easiest way is to lower off 2 pieces that you wont be clipping on your lead. This can be difficult if there isn't a lot of pro. If I am unable I will settle for a 1 pre-placed piece send. I will very rarely hike up to the top and clean that 1 piece. 

Depends on the pitch. Most of the time people will lower off a piece or two and clean the rest. IF they are close to the anchor or a bolt, they might just lower off that, cleaning as they go

For maximal credit on the assignment, most will remove and re-place (or not clip) the in-situ loweroff gear when redpointing the pitch.

Don't fall trad leading, it is bad form...

But I think the norm is to pull the rope and clip your gear that you already placed.  Different styles apply to different areas.

Buck Rio wrote: Don't fall trad leading, it is bad form...

But I think the norm is to pull the rope and clip your gear that you already placed.  Different styles apply to different areas.

Fall trad leading because it's not 1960 anymore and the sport has progressed beyond 'the leader must not fall'. If you're clipping pre-placed I would still call it officially a pink point which is fine as long as you don't lie about it. 

Most areas that I climb have bolted anchors regardless of the type of route. A hard (for me) trad redpoint mostly goes like this:

• Warmup on an easier route nearby
• Climb the entire route in question from piece-to-piece taking when necessary / working out any crux sections I need to
• Lower off the anchor, clean all gear and rest
• Go for it

Taylor Krosbakken wrote: For sport climbing I just pull the rope and have prehung draws for my next burn, no big deal. But when going for a trad lead redpoint and you fall, do you just have to go to the top anyway so you can clean your gear on lower/rappel before your next attempt? (a lot of effort, especially if you fall early in the pitch), pull the rope and have prehung gear for you next go? (lame) or lower on just one piece (back up with friction hitch on opposite rope) and have just one preplaced piece for you next attempt (less lame). other shenanigans?

So what do all you hard tradsters do after you fall? I am just starting to get into really pushing my limit while also wanting to get the redpoint.  

It’s not against the rules to have a rope hanging off the next route that you can rap off of if you fall. 

Since clipping pre-hung gear is aid, the only logical thing to do is to "down whip" the route:

1. Remove top piece of gear.
2. Let go and whip way down below your next highest piece.
3. Climb up to that piece, pull it, and jump again.
4. Repeat until you deck comfortably.

blakeherrington wrote: 
For maximal credit on the assignment, most will remove and re-place (or not clip) the in-situ loweroff gear when redpointing the pitch.

This seems like a good compromise. Pulling the gear out and resetting it is just as much work as pulling it off your harness. I think you could call that a redpoint without qualification.

A lot of good tactics have already been suggested.  I'd add that sometimes there's an neighboring route that you can use as a lower off. (either pre place gear at the right height(s) or clip bolts)

Taylor Krosbakken wrote: do you just have to go to the top anyway 

You don't have to do anything. You do want you want. As mentioned as long as you're honest about your accomplishment there really isn't a wrong approach.

To me it all depends on the situation and what's easy. If a fall is towards the top I'd finish, lower while cleaning, and go from the bottom. If it's towards the bottom I'd lower off a couple pieces together, when I reached them I'd clean one and that would be about the safe effort as placing one. Or I'd pinkpoint it and come back another time to redpoint it.

Buck Rio wrote: 
But I think the norm is to pull the rope and clip your gear that you already placed.  Different styles apply to different areas.

That shit is a pink point. 

If you fall, finish the route. Get to the top and either belay your second or rap (lame) and clean the route, re rack and then re send from the ground and place all of your gear again. 

Most of the time I just finish the route up to the anchors and clean on the way down.  It helps me practice the rest of the pitch after the fall anyway.  But I am curious why it seems like so many people are ok with claiming a redpoint on pre placed draws sport climbing but not pre placed trad gear?  Is it really that much harder to place gear on a route you know super well from the previous 10 attempts then it is to place a quickdraw?  I think it could be time consuming and tiring to place trad gear onsight but on my redpoint burns I know exactly which piece to put where and even rack them in order of placement on my harness on the correct side.

Also good to see the term pink point isn't dead yet!

There are two main ways to approach this, and each approach will tell you a lot about the nature of the motivations for climbing for yourself or your partners:

My preferred approach involves either climbing to the top of the route and then lowering or rapping down to get the gear back, or leaving a piece or two which is placed from a very restful or no-hands stance and lowering off of that to get the rest of the gear back. The idea behind leaving a piece from a very restful or no-hands stance is that the placing of that piece of gear adds no discernible difficulty to the overall challenge, and thus leaving it in as a pre-placed piece does not soil the ascent in the same way leaving in the crux piece of gear would. I only do this for routes where there is no bolts up top or no good top anchor/walkoff, and for very overhanging or leaning routes. The advantage of this approach is you get to say you did the route in as good a style as was reasonable for the circumstances, which include personal strength/fitness as well as resources such as partners and time.

The other approach is to just lower down and pull the rope, celebrating every time this is done in such a way as to leave the hardest to place gear in the route (but not if it takes up any jams-those pieces HAVE to come out).

Imo there's value in climbing the rest. How many times (sport) have I fell at the higher crux in a climb after sending for the first time the lower sections...

Thanks for all your replies. Lowering on a piece or two, then either taking them out and replacing on the send sounds like a really good compromise. And yes I know you don't have to do anything, including leave my couch, but I'm just going for a specific style of ascent, and curious how others do it. Thanks again!

Just in case anyone is interested: This past weekend, Taylor Fallbakken actually put all this knowledge in to practice and did a second burn trad redpoint in the cleanest and purest way possible:

1. Started a trad route onsight. Placed one marginal brass offset to protect a very low crux.
2. Fell, pulled the nut, and decked on to rocks.
3. Said some crazy stuff and touched his butt a lot.
4. With no gear left on the route, the extra energy of not having to climb the whole thing, and a proper fear of the ground; he sewed it up and got the redpoint.

There are two main things we can gleam from this experience. The first is that placing poor gear saves you the effort of having to clean it on the way down or having to lower at all. The second is that by climbing the route in this style, referred to as "Deckpointing", you can actually claim an onsight trad lead of the second half of the pitch.

Palisade? Which route?

Also lol deckpointing.

No. Stupid slippery Devils lake.  

also thank you Bad Goat....

Seriously, this whole thing shouldn’t take so much though. Lower off 2 high pieces and clean the gear. Relead the route and feel free to clip the friggin pieces after checking that they’re still well placed and secure. Flail and repeat. Or finish the route and still call it a red point. If it really matters that much, clip the piece to your harness then replace it, but I’m pretty sure that at that point you’ve made it more about placing gear than pushing limits and we could digress into all sorts of BS.
Check your knot, be honest about your accomplishments and have fun climbing.
-Mackley