Space Hauling Question

MP big-wall masters, I could use your help.

My partner and I are planning for a longer ascent with heavier loads (>200 lbs). The other day we went out to try a two-man space haul setup, if that's the right term. We've also fiddled around with a 2:1 system—just trying to figure out what works best before we're on the wall.

So here's my question. If both people are on ascenders on the haul line, how do both jug back up to the anchor without jamming the haul bag into the teeth? Together, we're heavy enough that the bag moves if we're both weighting the haul line. When we reach the end of our backup leashes and start jugging, the bag starts moving up again. One person can grab the bag's side of the haul line so the other person can jug, but that only works as long as the bag is below us. What's the simplest way to make this system work?

For one, if you are space hauling with a 2:1, the top person will not be jugging.

For two, at the most, your bags will be right around 240-260 pounds. For me, at 125 pounds, that’s the standard, not bad at all load hauling via 2:1.

You better figure out how one man can haul that load alone. Waiting for the other guy to help haul is going to waste a lot of time. 

Space Hauling is what we did on the first day or so on all the big routes I did back in the day..
2:1 is probably a way better system as Mark says, since it lets you get the hauling done while the second cleans..
but I’d say it’s worth knowing how to do it-

What I always did-
*lead the pitch, set up the Haul and get the bags off the lower anchor..
*haul as much as you can without killing yourself (this will increase as weight goes down each day)
*when the second is done cleaning the pitch, he ties in short on the fixed lead line giving himself a generous amount of slack- and transfers his jugs to the slack end of the Haul Line..
*the climber at the anchor continues hauling just as he would with a lighter load and a normal haul- meaning he stays at the anchor doing Squats.
*if everything is perfect the counterweight climber can get a rhythm going where they are essentially jugging in place.. other times they will be riding the line down and jugging back up.. either works. 

Mark and Quinn, thank you for the responses. That helps a lot.

We may end up going for a simple 2:1. The reason we considered a space haul is that we may have a third member on the team—another reason for heavy loads. In that case, one follower would clean while the other quickly jugs a free line to get up and help the leader haul. Is that a viable system, or is a 2:1 still superior if it's working properly?

The last time I tried a 2:1, it felt like hard work with ~250 lbs of weight (I'm about 160). But that's probably due to me not having the system dialed yet.

"If both people are on ascenders on the haul line, how do both jug back up to the anchor without jamming the haul bag into the teeth?"

Both people are weighting the haul line only during the short time that the guy at the pulley is squatting down.  Once he stops moving down, and stands back up on the ledge (or in his aiders), only the second guy's weight is on the haul line.  Since (bag weight + friction) > (second guy's weight) at that point, the bag stops moving.  I suppose you could come up with a way for both climbers to be freely weighting the haul line for an extended amount of distance, but this in inviting an unplanned dynamic load situation.  One squat-move at a time seemed to be sufficient when I spacehauled.

Spacehauling seemed to be more applicable, sometimes, back when few people had a good, dialed-in 2:1 system.  We did it when we jugged back up to Sickle Ledge, but these days I'd likely have a good 2:1 ready to apply.

Willis K wrote:We may end up going for a simple 2:1. The reason we considered a space haul is that we may have a third member on the team—another reason for heavy loads. In that case, one follower would clean while the other quickly jugs a free line to get up and help the leader haul. Is that a viable system, or is a 2:1 still superior if it's working properly?

With a three man team, I’d have the jugger counterweight the bags and use the 2:1 to pump them up quickly and easily (I’m all about easily).
I’m an old guy, I’m weak, I’m frail, I get tired quickly and it takes me longer to recover and I simply don’t like hard work. The reason I can still climb walls is because I use my brain and not my brawn (whatever is left of it) to figure out easy ways to do hard stuff.

Mark Hudon wrote: With a three man team, I’d have the jugger counterweight the bags and use the 2:1 to pump them up quickly and easily (I’m all about easily).
I’m an old guy, I’m weak, I’m frail, I get tired quickly and it takes me longer to recover and I simply don’t like hard work. The reason I can still climb walls is because I use my brain and not my brawn (whatever is left of it) to figure out easy ways to do hard stuff.

Makes a lot of sense. If we can get the 2:1 right, we'll do that. Your brains are clearly worth quite a bit — these big wall forums are lucky to have you.

If two guys hauling 1:1 are moving the pig up too fast, then it is the perfect weight for one guy to haul 2:1.  As mentioned above, the benefit is that the top guy can haul the pig alone using the 2:1 while the second cleans the pitch, thus not wasting time waiting for the second to get up.  

Note:  BE VERY CAREFUL not to jam the top of the haul into the teeth of the hauling device, or you are going to have a real problem!