How to get on rappel from TR anchor

Let's assume I've got a bomber TR anchor built, where the MP hangs over the edge.  However for a variety of reasons I'd like to rap down rather than walk (walk is sketch, area is crowded, etc).  What's a safe way to get on rappel here?  My first attempt, I clipped a sling into the anchor shelf, downclimbed a bit, put ATC/autoblock on, but wasn't able to weight rappel without first removing the sling, which felt not quite right.  Suggestions?

Matthew Bertolatus wrote: Let's assume I've got a bomber TR anchor built, where the MP hangs over the edge.  However for a variety of reasons I'd like to rap down rather than walk (walk is sketch, area is crowded, etc).  What's a safe way to get on rappel here?  My first attempt, I clipped a sling into the anchor shelf, downclimbed a bit, put ATC/autoblock on, but wasn't able to weight rappel without first removing the sling, which felt not quite right.  Suggestions?

Get ready for it....

Gear anchor? Bolts?

Sometimes in these situations, I have a little extra static that I have used for the anchor and I just rappel down a tag line, attach directly to MP, then set up a rappel on the climbing rope.

There are various ways, partly depending on the terrain and the rigging.  But for most of the better approaches, you begin by installing your rap device just below the master point, tying it off (video below) and clipping it to your harness belay loop.  Note: a catastrophe knot on the brake strand is a poor substitute for the tie-off.

So now the problem is how to get down low enough to weight the rap device.  It is tied off so both hands are free.  If down-climbing is simple, that is the easiest thing to do, but remember that a fall in this position, although short, will be a high fall-factor fall on a stiff system.  

If it isn't so simple to downclimb but is still practical, then you can add overhead protection by installing a prusic on a strand of the anchor rigging if you've used a static rope for this purpose, clipping that with a tether, and climbing down with that as protection.  This also works if you aren't really downclimbing but can just grab the rigging and lower yourself over the edge.  If your anchor points are just over the top, you can clip the tether to one of them.

In some cases you might feel you have to rappel over the edge to get to the point where your device is weighted,  Of course, this requires extra rope.  If the rigging is done with a static rope, sometimes there is enough free tail to use that as a rap line.  Of course the tail has to hang well below the master point in order to consider this option.  Install pear-shaped carabiner on your belay loop above the tied-off rap device and clip it to the suplus static line with a Munter hitch.  Rappel on the Munter hitch until your belay device is fully weighted, and then "pop" the Munter off the static line (which works even though the static line is still weighted).

All these methods leave you hanging below the master point on a tied-off rap device.  Release the tie-off and rap down.

Pull up the MP and install your backup, rappel device, and then tie a catastrophe knot several feet below. Then down climb that section over the edge until you have rope weighted. Remove the catastrophe knot and rap down. 

Johnathan Tran wrote: First it sounds like you're leaving your anchor behind, which is up to you I guess, but most people want to keep their gear. If you don't want to leave gear behind, ideally there is fixed hardware that's round/smooth to rappel off (rappel rings, quicklinks, etc. but not directly through bolts). You want to have your sling/attachment long enough so that you can weight the rope before removing yourself from the anchor. Or maybe you just need to take up more through your rappel device.

Reading in fundamental! OP has set up an anchor to tr from and wants to rappel down so that he can climb said tr. If he doesn't "leave his gear" hows he gonna climb said tr?

Do what you can to avoid rappelling off a toprope anchor... if you do it, I would reccomend using the method NoahR described so you can properly hang test the anchor in the correct orientation prior to trusting it. Carabiners in the anchor can come unclipped if the direction of loading changes, which happens if you pull up the masterpoint, set up the rappel and downclimb onto the anchor. I've witnessed a fatal accident when a climber downclimbed onto an anchor and one of the carabiners unclipped itself when the loading direction changed, which somehow led to the whole anchor coming unclipped.

I run into a similar problem at our local TR only crag and usually end up pulling the MP and climbing rope to where I am standing above the cliff, set up my rappel device along with backup, and then downclimb to a position below the MP and begin to rappel.  Sometimes I'll clip into the MP with a sling or sometimes tie a safety knot below the climbing rope.  I never feel too great about the process, but it works.  Sometimes I'll physically grab the static line with my hand as im getting positioned, but not sure if that's a bad idea or not.

And similar to what you mentioned, sometimes my sling isn't long enough to weight the rappel while still having that backup. I'll get some peace of mind from setting up the rappel device while standing on flat ground above the cliff.

David Bruneau wrote: Do what you can to avoid rappelling off a toprope anchor... if you do, I would reccomend using the method NoahR described so you can properly hang test the anchor in the correct orientation prior to trusting it. Carabiners in the anchor can come unclipped if the direction of loading changes, which happens if you pull up the masterpoint, set up the rappel and downclimb onto the anchor. I've witnessed a fatal accident when a climber downclimbed onto an anchor and one of the carabiners unclipped itself when the loading direction changed, which somehow led to the whole anchor coming unclipped. 

If I rap, I typically pull up the masterpoint, put the rope through my device, tie a friction backup, then downclimb while being mindful of changes to the load direction on my gear (try to climb down from directly above it, not applying any side-to-side force). I cringe and keep a careful eye on the gear when partners do it with less care. It works pretty well when the masterpoint sits just over the edge and has a clean drop to the ground. If the masterpoint has to be further down over the edge because it would otherwise rub against <90 degree rock, I'm not going to risk it; walking down and around is almost always faster where I climb.

David Bruneau wrote: Do what you can to avoid rappelling off a toprope anchor... if you do, I would reccomend using the method NoahR described so you can properly hang test the anchor in the correct orientation prior to trusting it. Carabiners in the anchor can come unclipped if the direction of loading changes, which happens if you pull up the masterpoint, set up the rappel and downclimb onto the anchor. I've witnessed a fatal accident when a climber downclimbed onto an anchor and one of the carabiners unclipped itself when the loading direction changed, which somehow led to the whole anchor coming unclipped. 

Was this a top rope anchor built from gear?  A carabiner between the gear and the master point came unclipped?  

Daniel Roberts wrote:

Was this a top rope anchor built from gear?  A carabiner between the gear and the master point came unclipped?  

It was on two bolts. One biner unclipped from the bolt due to the change in orientation. Locking biners would have prevented the unclipping

In a situation like this I will usually bring 30ft of 8mm accessory cord, anchor that however is safe and rappel off that with a GriGri down to the MP. Go direct to MP however you see fit and set up your rappel.

Obviously I have a knot in the end of it and my GriGri version works with that diameter of rope, so those are things to take into account. You can use any size rope and rappel device you’re comfortable with to do this.

I almost never head out without a 30 ft cord. I’ve used them for all sorts of things I never foresaw.

Use a static line that is long enough to include a long tether in the system. Tie off the end of the tether and go over the edge on a Grigri to set up your rappel.

One option is to tie a BHK on safe ground to use as your "high master", with the knot's backside long enough to extend over the lip to be the "low master".

Then treat it like a multi-pitch rappel.

David Bruneau wrote:

It was on two bolts. One biner unclipped from the bolt due to the change in orientation. Locking biners would have prevented the accident

Maybe not the incident you're referring to, but here's the info on a strange, chilling accident doing what OP asks about:

If down-climbing to reach below the master point, I think the best way is to tie-in on end of the TR rope and have your partner belay you from below. In this way, you avoid a high factor fall and dealing with rappeling, transfering weight, extra knots, etc. Its more like a lead-climbing situation where you are being lowered (the rope is already clipped into the master point).

The problem with down climbing is that you can't weight the system before committing to it. Installing an access rope is a possible workaround. If you are not building your anchor with a rope, then you can use one of the strands of the TR rope.
1. Sling something bomber and clip a strand of the TR rope. tie a knot in the end a pull enough so that it clears the hanging master point.
2. Rappel on that doubled-up strand and clip into the master point.
3. Loosen the rappel until your weight is transferred to the master point. Bounce test while holding the rappel brake strand and finally commit.
4. Undo the rappel setup and pull its strand down for the TR.
5. Set up new rappel on the master point.

It sounds like this wouldn't have worked for your situation, but my usual approach in similar situations is to build a rap anchor above the TR anchor, and rap down slightly past the TR anchor. This works well when using static line to build the TR anchor because you usually have some static line left over at one end of your TR anchor, and you can just use that. This is one of the approaches recommended by the AMGA SPI class.

rgold wrote: There are various ways, partly depending on the terrain and the rigging.  But for most of the better approaches, you begin by installing your rap device just below the master point, tying it off (video bekow) and clipping it to your harness belay loop.  Note: a catastrophe knot on the brake strand is a poor substitute for the tie-off.

Just to explain WHY the catastrophe not is a poor substitute: I've weighted a catastrophe knot a twice during TR solo, and it's not something I'd want to do again. The knot works by jamming itself into your device. Unless you plan to stay there forever and become a rock person, you'll need to UNjam the knot. This can be extremely difficult. Realize that your entire body weight has sucked the edge of this knot into the device.

Thanks all - sounds like clipping in with a long sling, getting on rappel while on ledge, then carefully downclimbing and weighting rappel first is best for this particular situation.  What really tripped me up was weighting the anchor MP, and having to wiggle around to get weight off of there and onto rappel, while hanging over ledge.  Didn't have a static line to work with in this particular situation.  

Lower off of topropes and sport climbs do not rappel. Simple!☺

Julian H wrote: Grab the Master point with your left hand. The brake with your right and swing over the edge. 

I'm sketch, I'll do this..  Sometimes if I'm setting up a TR solo I have to do this, But I've had thousands of raps under my belt long before I even started rock climbing. And a backup, what's that Lol!!!